2400pts beastmen (led by doombull)

[The bearded one]

Fantasy Army: BoC

I've made some attempts at writing a beastmen list before, and I'm fairly happy with this one, though you may subject pretty much anything to change. All I would prefer to keep is the doombull, because I wanna have a sickeningly killy character for once.

Doombull
- gnarled hide
- ramhorn helm
- heavy armour
- dawnstone
- axes of khorgor (+1 attack, reroll to hit)
- ironcurse icon
347pts

Great Bray Shaman
- lvl4 (lore of beasts)
- additional handweapon
- jagged dagger
249pts

Bray Shaman
- lvl 1 (lore of the wild)
- dispel scroll
- additional handweapon
102pts

Wargor
- BSB
- The beastbanner
- heavy armour
- shield
191pts

38 gors
- additional handweapons
- full command
329pts

5 ungor raiders

5 ungor raiders

5 ungor raiders

5 ungor raiders


Tuskgor chariot

Tuskgor chariot


35 bestigors
- full command
- standard of discipline
465pts

7 minotaurs
- standard bearer
- shields
433pts

The doombull would join the minotaurs (who are there frankly only to protect the doombull from cannons, as of my closest gaming group 4 of 5 players have 1-2 cannons), the great bray shaman is the general and joins the bestigors for the extra leadership, and the wargor and lvl1 join the gors.

[Bazzal]

I like the list I use exact same build on my doom bull. I would point out that your minotaurs won't get a parry save if the doom bull joins them as he'd make them frenzy I'd suggest taking add hand wep and charge them into combat.


Also against cannons consider harpies and loose a few bestingor. Or chalice of dark rain think that the one cannons can only shoot on a 4+ for a turn so u get first turn ur minotaurs should b in combat before too much damage is caused

[The bearded one]

true on the parrysave, though I figured I'd prefer the little bit of save (5+ is still better than 6+ ) to the 3 extra attacks I'd get from the unit.

Chalice of dark rain is a good idea, especially considering that 2 of my close local opponents are dwarf gunlines

[The bearded one]

I think I'll drop a couple of bestigor for the chalic of dark rain, but I was also considering dropping 1 minotaur for a razorgor, that I could use as a porky battering ram/assassin.

And I'd also only need 6 mino's then, which is 2 boxes instead of 3

[Memnos]

Love the army! One suggestion: The Minotaur can buy the sword of ASF and a shield, then toss in +1 I. He'll nearly always get the reroll to hit in that case and go to a 1+ save instead of a 2+ save. The Great Bray Shaman, if he's not going in a chariot, will find it difficult to get full use from the dagger. Usually, if I'm using the dagger, I'm putting him in with the Skin of Man and holding back artillery and firearms with the Chalice so he doesn't get sniped.

The dagger will let you get more dice if you're planning on throwing the big augment spells from Beasts on 'im, though, and if you plan on putting him in combat. That's really risky given his lack of defense, however.

Depending on how you go, that might give you some extra points to buy some defense for your BSB. As a Beastmen player, I don't have to tell you how useful that reroll for Primal Fury is.

[The bearded one]

I did consider the ASF sword for the doombull, but was not entirely convinced. Having the extra point of armoursave is going to be handy though, because a 2+ save can become fairly 'meh' fairly quickly against high strength.

I am unsure how the shaman would get more use out of the dagger when on a chariot, could you elaborate? Is it if you used him with the brass cleaver and put the charot sideways for a boatload of attacks that the dagger could use?

The BSB has a magic banner (str4 gors, woohoo!), so can't really get any defence other than what he has now. At least he has a 4+ and a parry at T5, which I think should keep him alive for a little while.

[Morax]

On a slightly related topic, you may wish to pick up that 3rd box of minotuars anyway. Converting the Doombull from them can give you a really nice look without it being stock standard. Had a friend do this and it came out well. The Axes he made out of bloodletter standard tops attached to handles and driping with blood, came out great.

On the list - Looks great man, don't see enough people using minotuars. They hit like a ton of bricks and with a beasts wizard throwing wyssians on them they are murder to try and kill.

[daa6]

The bearded one - I think the chariot is for the bbenefit of the dagger (impact hits) because if your side on, that would be a flank charge "not good".

Liking the Doom build... have one myself, and recently changed to the Sword over the cleaver... the extra "I" is not a bad idea... (elves) if you fight them.

[The bearded one]

I prefer keeping the great bray shaman in the bestigor unit, especially because he acts as the army general and requires the bestigors' standard of discipline. Furthermore the players I play against most often, have lots and lots of cannons In a group of 5, 4 have armies that use cannons, and across these 4 armies in total generally 6-7 cannons are used Not that good of an environment for a shaman on a chariot xD

[Sexiest_hero]

Drop down a minotaur and a few bestigors, get an ASF sword for the doombull pronto. Is there a reason you went lore of the wild? add some piggies and harpies. If you have a Mino champ give him Blackened plate.

[The bearded one]

Drop down a minotaur and a few bestigors, get an ASF sword for the doombull pronto. Is there a reason you went lore of the wild? add some piggies and harpies. If you have a Mino champ give him Blackened plate.

blackened plate?

I considered lore of the wild for the level 1, to use bestial surge to get the army across the field a bit faster in the first turns.

[daa6]

The bearded one - You poor person... I feel sorry for your cows - sorry - Bulls... that many cannons SUCKS... almost criminal... actually scratch the almost !

where were you putting the Ironcurse icon....? If i remember right the Doombull cant have it, as it shares a slot with something else from his kit...

Would use ambush raiders or harpies and the chalis thing too. but u know that

[The bearded one]

I believe the doombull can have the ironcurse icon. The dawnstone and ironcurse icon are from different item categories and the rest is armour and weapons.

So many cannons does heavily diminish the use of any kind of monster, unless you go for targetsaturation, like a sphinx-list or stegadon-stampede.

It is also the major reason I have a unit of 7 minotaurs, because without minotaurs I wouldn't have a safe place for the doombull with 'look out sir'. I also feel I am better off keeping 7, so that I can lose 2 and still have 'look out sir'.

[GodlessM]

Note that there is more protection you can get for your BSB; Gnarled Hide. FAQ says you can take a magic banner and gifts.

[Jagosaja]

I also use the build with ASF sword, shield and extra I. That build took a charge from two Steam Tanks from previous edition and won , slayed a charging Star Dragon and took down a whole unit of Temple Guard with Slaan on his own. Trust me, he will get those re-rolls where they matter, and 1+ re-rollable ramhorn combo brings a whole lot of happiness more to our Doombull than 2+ does. The only way to take that **** down is to trick him - a Vampire Lord in a Black Knight bus with massive combat resolution charged me, I slayed the Lord but he had Von Carstein Ring so I lost, fled and got caught.

Note that there is more protection you can get for your BSB; Gnarled Hide. FAQ says you can take a magic banner and gifts.

True, but not if Doombull already took it.

[GodlessM]

I also use the build with ASF sword, shield and extra I. That build took a charge from two Steam Tanks from previous edition and won , slayed a charging Star Dragon and took down a whole unit of Temple Guard with Slaan on his own.

None of these example solidify the ASF build at all as they are examples of good luck at it's most extreme (or examples left without context). Based on exactly what you said, on average a full on double Stank charge should have yielded 20 impact hits in total, dealing 13 wounds, so with average saves a dead Doombull. Even then, the Bull has 7 attacks, gains no benefit from the ASF as he hits automatically and still goes after Impact Hits, and then needs 6's to wound; on average that's one wound dealt with a 50% chance of it being saved. The charge alone draws that combat on average.

In the case of the charging Star Dragon, either you have neglected to mention the Dragon had f-all wounds left or else he somehow scored 7 wounds with 7 attacks, when on average he should have hit 6 times and done 3 wounds, with a small chance of 1 being saved. Dragon should only hit 3 times, meaning after wounds and saves you don't have enough Ramhorn hits to slay it.

And in the Temple Guard case my guess is you have failed to mention exactly how many rounds of combat this took, and it should be said that there are tonnes of things that can take out Temple Guard over time.

I'm not saying the combo is bad, I'm just saying your argument's hurt the cause rather than strengthen it given either the obscene luck or left out details.

[Jagosaja]

Of course those are extreme, that is why I mentioned them. Would it sound better or more fun if I said "Hey, my Doombull charged Spearmen and won"? Maybe I have not expressed myself properly, I also use Ramhorn Helm, Gnarled Hide and Heavy Armour.

Tanks had about 10-11 impact hits as I was close to them (failed the charge myself), scored 7 wounds I think, and after saves (rerollable 4+) only took one wound, which is lucky but not OTT lucky. It gave me 6 more attacks, so I had 5 + 1 from frenzy + 2 from previous combats + 6 additional attacks = 14 hits. I got 4 sixes (again lucky, but not OTT lucky) and he saved one. I won by 1. Yes, many times lucky, but not insanely.

With Star Dragon, I scored a wound on him with impact hits. Prince hit me 4 times with great weapon, wounded me 4 times (he was lucky here) and I saved all of them (should have taken one wound, but I didn't, so it was me who was lucky there). So, 5 basic attacks, 1 from frenzy, 4 from ramhorn helm, that is 10 attacks total for him before dragon has a chance to strike. As I re-roll, I have hit 9 of them (should have been 8), and wounded 6 (again a little more than average). Dragon failed to make saves, poof he goes (again lucky).

And against Temple Guard it was a combat that lasted several rounds, basically he never managed to score a wound (he was aiming for better save than strength), and I grinded him slowly.

So, overall, I was lucky. It wasn't some abnormal luck, just a series of small fortunate rolls. Sure, say that I rolled a wound less on a dragon, he would have attacked me, I wouldn't die and would get enough attacks from the helm to take that one or two remaining wounds from him. In the Steam tanks scenario, it might have been a draw. Of course if they both charged me from a great distance they would have devastated me, but I am not saying that this Doombull build is invincible, just that he is very powerful that it can happen often that he manages to "overperform".

On the other hand, if I have taken 20 impact hits, causing 13 wounds, and I have 1+ rerollable armour save, how have you calculated that a 5 wound Doombull could have died by S6 attacks? By my calculation he should have taken 3 wounds, not more.

[The bearded one]

well, I'm sold a 1+ save makes more use of the ramhorn helm anyway. I can't wait for the first time I get 10+ attacks

Alternatively I considered the brass cleaver, because that could give up to 4 extra attacks, but I guess the rerolls are more handy for fluked rolls.

[daa6]

Hi bearded one. about my lack of Ironcurse icon.... its because i use the "other tricksters shard" to help against the ward saves both magical from characters and shield parry saves from rank n file...

(mainly because my main opponent was / is an ork and rolls a abnormal number of 6's when he needs them...

[GodlessM]

Tanks had about 10-11 impact hits as I was close to them (failed the charge myself), scored 7 wounds I think, and after saves (rerollable 4+) only took one wound, which is lucky but not OTT lucky. It gave me 6 more attacks, so I had 5 + 1 from frenzy + 2 from previous combats + 6 additional attacks = 14 hits. I got 4 sixes (again lucky, but not OTT lucky) and he saved one. I won by 1. Yes, many times lucky, but not insanely.

How close the Tanks were didn't matter in the old book as you still got Grind attacks with remaining Steam Points. If your opponent chose not to use them that's not an argument in your favour.

With Star Dragon, I scored a wound on him with impact hits.

You said earlier that the Star Dragon was charging.

On the other hand, if I have taken 20 impact hits, causing 13 wounds, and I have 1+ rerollable armour save, how have you calculated that a 5 wound Doombull could have died by S6 attacks? By my calculation he should have taken 3 wounds, not more.

Because you didn't mention any items whatsoever in the last post, so exactly how are people meant to make a comparison based on information you didn't provide? With the information given he should have taken 3 wounds and done 1-2 back after saves, meaning he should have lost by 2-3.