Is Captain America basically a Space Marine?

[agurus1]

So I was watching the Avengers last week, and there is a scene where Captain America fights Loki. Essentially from that moment on I kept seeing him as Space Marine material. Genetically enhanced to superhuman levels, increased speed, strength, honor, integrity, ect.... all he is missing is the armour (he does have a storm shield though) Basically my thoughts are, is Captain America close to what we could expect from an unarmoured space marine?

[pointyteeth]

I think he'd be a bit small, but potentially yes.

[IanR]

Shouldn't the OP question have been Did GW base space marines on Captain America?

[AndrewGPaul]

Not exclusively, no. His origin story might be a part of it, but if so, it was simply the idea of building a superman, not any particular details.

[althathir]

So I was watching the Avengers last week, and there is a scene where Captain America fights Loki. Essentially from that moment on I kept seeing him as Space Marine material. Genetically enhanced to superhuman levels, increased speed, strength, honor, integrity, ect.... all he is missing is the armour (he does have a storm shield though) Basically my thoughts are, is Captain America close to what we could expect from an unarmoured space marine?

Comics - His power level is basically supposed to the peak that a human can accomplish with some additional perks, I don't think in the comics that it effected his honor or integrity at all. Space marines are way past that point fluffwise, with a second heart, additional senses, the whole acid spit/brain eating stuff. The best thing about the character is that alot of the time he is leading people that are alot stronger than him, (he and winter soldier are my favorite comic characters)

edit: for example cap could run as fast as bolt can sprint, for a long time thats more the extent of his powers.

Movie wise - seems to be buffed up quite a bit more, but I still think its probably short of what a space marine is supposed to be able to accomplish raw strengthwise. The Agility is probably right on though IMO. I think the ideal of the serum boosting his good qualities was kinda more an excuse to have the red skull be even more pscyho (which is fine, Caps really challenge is being out of place/time anyways)

[MvS]

No, I'd say he's just a 'genehanced' soldier.

Space Marines have extra organs, ntech-implants, eurosurgery, hypno-indoctrination and a whole plethora of other factors designed to make them very specific killing machines. Captain America isn't in the same league and has too much humanity left (much to his credit).

[Mr.Sparkle]

Shouldn't the OP question have been Did GW base space marines on Captain America?

I believe Jack Kirby originally designed Captain America in Blue due to his love of Ultramarines.

[althathir]

No, I'd say he's just a 'genehanced' soldier.

Space Marines have extra organs, ntech-implants, eurosurgery, hypno-indoctrination and a whole plethora of other factors designed to make them very specific killing machines. Captain America isn't in the same league and has too much humanity left (much to his credit).

I think thats the whole point of him being in the avengers to be the relatable hero, with simple values.

I believe Jack Kirby originally designed Captain America in Blue due to his love of Ultramarines.

I think kirby would have been more a fan of wolves, or DA. He and stan lee tended to define their characters with their flaws granted most of the ultramarine fluff I know is by..... Ward.

[MvS]

I think thats the whole point of him being in the avengers to be the relatable hero, with simple values.

Absolutely. Space Marines, on the other hand, aren't all that relatable to - post-human, acid-spitting, super-soldier, fanatical angels of death that they are.

Ooh! They can also get memories from their victims by eating their flesh (or was that brains? I forget). Not very 'all American boy' of them.

Cap' is the voice and values of the honest everyman in the body of the greatest physical specimen of a human possibility.

[Charistoph]

No, I'd say he's just a 'genehanced' soldier.

Space Marines have extra organs, ntech-implants, eurosurgery, hypno-indoctrination and a whole plethora of other factors designed to make them very specific killing machines. Captain America isn't in the same league and has too much humanity left (much to his credit).

This. He is what most of the Lion's Order, including Luther, became, physically, and without any hypno-therapy or linkages to the Warp. He doesn't have the redundant systms that a full Astartes has. In Fantasy terms, he would look like a Chaos Hero, but 40K stats are too large to put him in right.

[The Devourer]

Captain Amerca is far more human, physically and mentally. Cap's body works like a human's but each part functions a bit better. Marines are hardly recognisable as human. The features they do share with humans have a completely different structure and they have many new organs. Mentally the captain is just a normal human, all the good personality traits he had are his own and are unrelated to his treatment. Marines on the other hand think nothing like a regular human- they display traits of many mental illnesses/conditions. Crucially Marines aren't designed to be heroic- their job is to be the best possible killers.

[althathir]

Captain Amerca is far more human, physically and mentally. Cap's body works like a human's but each part functions a bit better. Marines are hardly recognisable as human. The features they do share with humans have a completely different structure and they have many new organs. Mentally the captain is just a normal human, all the good personality traits he had are his own and are unrelated to his treatment. Marines on the other hand think nothing like a regular human- they display traits of many mental illnesses/conditions. Crucially Marines aren't designed to be heroic- their job is to be the best possible killers.

Movie cap is quite a bit stronger than comic cap, but yeah pretty much agree with this & MVS statements. The key to me though is we aren't supposed to relate with Space marines at all, they given up their humanity to protect humanity in general, they aren't nice people they may be honorable, but I doubt we'd be impressed with their moral code (hey that ones different where's the flamer).

[Spetulhu]

Marines on the other hand think nothing like a regular human- they display traits of many mental illnesses/conditions. Crucially Marines aren't designed to be heroic- their job is to be the best possible killers.

Exactly so - many Chapters recruit feral world barbarians or the worst possible hive world scum they can get their hands on. Why? Because these recruits will already know kill-or-be-killed if they've reached recruiting age, and molding them into more efficient and skilled killers is just a matter of correct training. Those that recruit from more civilized worlds will have to use more hypno-therapy, although it's probably offset by having a larger populace to scour for recruits. That said marines are also supposed to be disciplined killers. The hypno-therapy, training, endless drills makes them follow orders almost without thinking.

A bit like how some modern armies are said to no longer recruit snipers from the best shots but from those who have no compunctions about killing. A good shot is no guarantee that you can make the man kill people he can see through the scope, but you can always train a killer to shoot better.

[TheDoctor]

Captain America is the prototype for the space marine project. Presumably it was the Emperor in disguise who originally worked on the super-soldier serum.

[Orthodox]

All the Captains America (Isaiah Bradley, U.S. Agent, the weapon Xers) were individual agents. Space marines' gene seed replace parts of their souls with their primarchs' so that chapters will all think and act as a uniform body.

Exactly so - many Chapters recruit feral world barbarians or the worst possible hive world scum they can get their hands on. Why? Because these recruits will already know kill-or-be-killed if they've reached recruiting age, and molding them into more efficient and skilled killers is just a matter of correct training. Those that recruit from more civilized worlds will have to use more hypno-therapy, although it's probably offset by having a larger populace to scour for recruits. That said marines are also supposed to be disciplined killers. The hypno-therapy, training, endless drills makes them follow orders almost without thinking.

A bit like how some modern armies are said to no longer recruit snipers from the best shots but from those who have no compunctions about killing. A good shot is no guarantee that you can make the man kill people he can see through the scope, but you can always train a killer to shoot better.

I think feral recruits have more to do with warriors in the gene pool than actual child soldiering. As you say though, they recruit for psychology more than for ability, e.g. wasted Baalites and mortally-wounded fenrisians, the meme-pool is probably also important.

[shadowhawk2008]

All the Captains America (Isaiah Bradley, U.S. Agent, the weapon Xers) were individual agents. Space marines' gene seed replace parts of their souls with their primarchs' so that chapters will all think and act as a uniform body.

Right.... That is so apparent in the lore as we have had over the years. Garviel Loken, Tari Torgaddon, Nathaniel Garro, the various traitor Astartes in M41 and teh years leading upto it. They all think and act as a uniform body. Or even loyalists such as in the case of Uriel Ventris and Ragnar Blackmane and what not. Yep yep. Soul? Really?

[Askil the Undecided]

Captain America is just a dude on uber steroids. He's powerful but ultimately he's limited by the scope of human capacity. Homo Sapien + Uber drugs.

A space marine is a divergent species, with different physiological and psychological capacities. He is also encased in giant tank armour with it's own muscles and carries a rapid fire armour piercing RPG rifle and pistol. Homo Sapien Astartes.

In short any similarities beyond the most superficial "they are better at X than me" examples between Captain america and an Astartes ended the moment they ceased to be unaltered humans.

[insectum7]

is Captain America close to what we could expect from an unarmoured space marine?

Heh. He wishes.

[IanR]

I believe Jack Kirby originally designed Captain America in Blue due to his love of Ultramarines.

wow, i didnt know that ultrasmurfs were around in the 1940's, so does that mean time travel is possible (maybe jack kirby & joe simon are the missing primarchs). learn something new every day. roflmao

[ChiTownPicaro]

Shouldn't the OP question have been Did GW base space marines on Captain America?

I would love agree with this point.

But I don't think it is the case. Super soldiers and enhanced soldiers is not a new idea.