Starting Tyranids, good idea or not?

[Dwarf Longbeard]

Hi all

I've been looking at starting a new army and was after looking at the armies on offer I narrowed it down to Necrons or Tyranids.
After reading both codexes the Tyranids really stuck out to me as their very different from everything else, look good and I like the amount of options which they have and they look like they'll play differently than my other two armies - Eldar and Daemons.

One thing which got me thinking is when reading through these forums and other places there seems to be a lot of negative things about the Tyranids nowadays and it seems that they aren't that good an army anymore, some of my opponent armies are Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Dark Eldar, Thousand Sons and Emperors Children; so I've been wondering is it worth starting an army of them?

[BrilliantAntelope]

I've been reading the hate for Tyranids for so long. But to this day, I don't see why they're so bad. They were the first army I started playing, and they're still my favourite to this day. And ontop of it. Since their new dex. I haven't lost a game. And I don't tailor my lists, I just play with a list I think will be fun. So in my opinion they're good. Great even, now with those new models you don't need to build your own for anymore.

Without me going into detail of the units I like / use. Tyrannofex is good for AV for med-high point games, otherwise Hive Guard are great. And after all, you have to keep in my Hive Guard are still T6 beasts with a pretty strong gun, so they're good to take as an elite choice in even the lower point games. Hive Tyrants will need Guards if you're using him as your HQ for sure. Other than that, It's pretty much whatever you think you want or is cool. What you think is cool is what I think you should go for. Whatever is shiniest to you.

[Geep]

I'd always recommend playing an army where the look and play style appeals to you most. Codexes and core rules change- look and playstyle are usually pretty solid. Today is not the 'Nids day in the sun, but it will no doubt come around again.

'Nids suffer a bit at the moment from some bad choices and rules, but they're still definitely useable. Unfortunately this just means that what may look like a lot of choice is less than you'd think- assuming you're playing in a very competitive environment. Take a look at the Tyranids thread in the tactics forum- but keep in mind a lot of the negativity is in the eyes of the highly competitive gamers and that most things can be made to work, just not always easily.

What's the usual local playstyle? Common army compositions?

[Dwarf Longbeard]

Thanks there's a boost of confidence in them; I don't tailor my lists either just pick what sounds interesting; the new models caught my eye and helped in picking them.

I've picked a unit of 3 Hive Guard as well as 3 Zoanthropes for my elite slots, instead of a Tyrant I've opted for the Swarmlord to see how he does, did go for a pair of Tyrant Guard for him.
One unit which I thought might be fun to use is a squad of Spore Mines and deep strike them into his deployment zone before he sets up then see how they wander off and hopefully cause a menace for my opponent.

Thanks Geep I will look at that thread.
It's reading the negativity which has made me pause, a lot of the people I play are very competitive to the point of power gamers, I'd like to think I'm more of a relaxed player and pick a veriety of things in an army (as oppose to my friends constant deathwing army) and reading about the Dark Eldar poisoned weapons was a bit off putting.
Good point about the codexes and rules changing, here's hoping that their day will come again.

[BrilliantAntelope]

Yeah that seems solid Longbeard. Hive Guard are great in every point range I claim. You'll mostly never see me not field them. Unless I want to play a Vanguard style nid list Like Gargoyles, Lictors and Stealers etc. Swarmlord, is a beast in CC, and his two psy powers a turn. Oh buddy is he good. Grey Knights kind of get in his way with it, but normally I just power through it, and once he's in CC, he's scary, even to me. A good troop choice is a brood of warriors with two pairs of boneswords. They're just great, and they're the only power weapon outside of MCs and rending hits. Another good build is Scy Talons and Rending Claws. It's the best, and cheapest Warrior, since you can get everything there for free on them. They're also good, because they're troops, and don't need a synapse because they produce it, so you can direct your gaunts / gants else where, and keep them with a tougher unit that would need more support than from say. A Swarmlord.

[Clang]

And who knows whether Nids will be hurt or helped by the next 40K edition, or indeed the next Nids codex in a year or so. If you're not a power gamer, and you like nids, then go for them.

[Dwarf Longbeard]

Thanks for the replies, fair point they might get worse in the next edition
I'm thinking I will go for them and see how they go; I do like the things which are different from the normal Imperium armies which seem to be everywhere and an army of monsters is very appealing

[BrilliantAntelope]

Personally, I wouldn't worry about 6th ed hurting Nids too much. Again, no one can know for sure, but the biggest thing they did to them with 5th was take away the consolidating into another unit. Which is a change I accepted gladly, due to me also playing Guard, and hated when a Scout squad ate two guardsman squads and a stormtrooper squad with only losing one Scout (Sad day for me that was). But then they also added running, which allows all Nid units get into combat a lot faster. Just remember when you're close, don't run ones without fleet, of course.

[Grocklock]

I think you should wait just alittle see what 6th edition brings then reasses being as its so close

[sycopat]

I've said it before, I'll say it again: 'Nids are fine for friendly play. Where nids run into trouble is vs. competitive lists, due to some competitive lists basically getting the tools to kill 'nids for free, but also in part due to some really poor rules and units. You will learn what I mean the first time you are required to assault through cover with a unit that is not 20 genestealers.

This does not mean that 'nids do not perform well against certain lists or that they can't compete. It just means don't expect to finish too high at a big tournament. If that doesn't bother you much, go for it, have fun. I recommend lots of hive guard and lots of genestealers, but others favour trygons and tervigons or as many gargoyles as you can afford. There is a decent number of fun builds.

[Saboreth]

I don't think we can count on seeing a Nid codex in the next year or so when we have other codexs going into sixth ed while still on their fourth edition printing. Dark Angels, Tau, Eldar - I know Dark Eldar got the shaft for eons but leaving three codexes out to dry would be a curve ball even for GW. Or I'm just crazy - all props to GW but they do make some of the most jaw dropping, baffling judgment calls I've ever seen.

Otherwise, Nids are more about synnergy than any other list I've seen. you can't rate an individual unit on its own merits, but how well it fits into the grand scheme of things. I field a list that "net wisdom" would say is laughable, and yet I've got a -very- solid win record against more recent armies. Yesterday I even managed to give a hard spanking to the Grey Knights in a 1500 point game thanks to the Swarm Lord and a few choice support units. (And to be fair, the dice weren't with him that day, I have to give recognition to that factor too).

Like another poster said, collect an army because you think it's cool and it has a cool look and feel to you. It's the difference between buying a towering, intimidating,n fear inspiring Trygon and buying a kewl statline. YMMV. There's no wrong way to eat a Reese's. Unless your a venomthrope because then you're eating your own goo.

[No2Wookie]

Smart bets are on nids being helped by 6th edition. As a business profits company, GW will want to improve profits with their next edition. Everyone and their mother currently has vehicles. Lots and lots of vehicles. It seems to me they will want everyone to have loads and loads of infantry on the table next edition with only some supporting vehicles. The more infantry on the table, the happier a nid player is.

[Ventus]

First I would wait until 6th edition to see what it does to the game and nids. Also I would read the codex a few times and then proxy what seems good/fun in a variety of lists. Try to play against a variety of armies with your proxy lists. I say this because the dex has many problems for competitive and casual play (many rules/units do not work well or as you might think they would and you will likely find some of them frustrating - unless you are totally fluffy/fun and don't care if you are destroyed a lot by your opponent). I say this because any army is such a big investment in time and money and you need to go into nids with your eyes wide open to avoid too much bitterness. Some people do well with nids - good for them. But every local meta is different and each players skill level vs their opponents varies. You will find many nid players enormously frustrated with nids, even when they do okay because of so much gakky stuff.

If starting nids you don't have the baggage of trying to use/transfer your units/army from earlier editions, which is good. But check the numerous tyranid threads on the '40k general' and 'tactics' sites to find the multitude of problems that players have with the dex. If you are informed and understand the issues with nids and are fine with that than all the power to you and enjoy. The army does have a lot of cool models (for the units that have models/also some kits don't have all the biomorphs you may want/need so you should be aware of that too. Knowledge is power. Good luck.

[Gingerwerewolf]

Agreed with No2Wookie with one caveat - 6th edition is going to be the Flyers and Foot Edition. Tanks are not going to be so powerful, but Fliers will be.

No new Codex as of yet, but from the way that things are going with a lot of kits being Dual Kits, we may see the Harpy come out, with a different Flying Nid as the secondary Model (This is complete speculation from me)

I started Nids last year and I can say that they play so differently from every other Army I play. They are muchos fun because of that. They are a "Weak" army though, there are some good tactics, but but they dont work that well in 5th because of the Mech spam.

We'll see with 6th, and I must admit that my Nid side has all my hopes pinned on it!

[Ventus]

I don't buy the idea that 6th is bound to help nids - particularly because GW wants to make profits, etc. Yes 6th might help nids more than hurt them but might be the reverse. Look at nids since the release of the latest nid dex. It took over 2 years to release a tervigon model (one that they made one of the best units in the dex that would have sold plenty - people converted their own, stopped playing nids, etc - I can't imagine that they made what they would have if the model had been released within 3 months of the dex). There are many units with no model. But they made a pyrovore - with poor rules and the over stuffed elites and need for hive guard/zoeys I can't imagine they sold many - yet a decent errata to fix the rules might have changed that - nothing. The point is there is no way to be sure whether GWs decisions will help or burn you since making a good game/product is not their priority - making money is but their weird approach might work for them - just not for us necessarily.

[unknown_lifeform]

Nids aren't half as terrible as the internet makes out. There are lots of things that cause people to hate the new codex but its actual competetive viability in friendly games isn't really one of them.

In part the whining is influenced by old nid players who relied on units nerfed by the new codex (carnifex, spinefist gaunts) or who miss the old biomorph system. A lot of it also comes from some obvious poor design choices on display, such as poor internal balance, badly costed "upgrades" and seemingly useless special rules. This can be annoying if you get yourself annoyed by such things but doesn't actually affect viability as you just avoid the dross. There are plenty of viable and varied builds for friendly play - every nid player I bump into has a different theme and seems to do pretty well with it. They aren't even that bad in competetive play - the main issue being grey knight purifier armies have a "nids loose" special ability.

If you like nids then I say go for them!

[FashaTheDog]

To be honest, Nidzilla lists can be quite competitive against everyone except Tyranid Hunters, I mean Grey Knights. I have taken my five Fexes, Trygon Prime, Tyrant with or without Guard, Stealers, and outflanking Hormagaunts against competitive list and usually win by a good margin, if not a tabling, so long as my foe is not Grey Knights whose universal Nemesis Force Weapons butcher everything of T6 in short order as they need only to cause a single wound to kill a model, and I only have one regular Grey Knight foe with two other armies I only see on occasion. Last time I fought a Grey Knight army I had to switch to a Genestealer list because the points were below my Nidzilla threshold of 1,850 (it was a 1,250 point game) and I almost tabled him. That game was actually one of the most fun either of us ever played since for the first five turns the game was both our armies maneuvering and if the game ended there, I would have won with a single kill point as I had destroyed a Dreadnought on turn 2 and we would have hated that game as nothing happened. The following two turns saw the fruits of our jocking for the superior assault position as both our armies tore each other to shreds in the assault and as I (barely) had the better position I came out on top, but it easily could have been his major victory if the positions were slightly different.

The best advice I can give any Nid player is that if you use Carnifex, use them by the half dozen or so. The price for one Carnifex is too high, no question. However, the price is right when you have five or six of them as their value increases with their number. You can't blame Cruddance as in 4th edition I always ran 1,500 point lists in 1,850 point games to make it fair since few armies could deal with all that cheap T6 3+ or 2+ saves and all the Genestealers I dropped. As it stands they seem to be priced upon the assumption you will run many of them so they are terrible if run alone and thus the internet hates them since all of 40K is always fought in a vacuum of one on one combats with "yeah well I also have this, but yours does not count since I would have countered it already."

I personally love the army and despite internet wisdom, I do quite well and am seriously considering taking them to a tournament this Saturday if I can get enough Genestealers painted (I have yet to paint all my little guys after all these years, shame on me ). Generally speaking most people will not run hyper-competitive lists and there will be plenty of army variety in pickup games so you can freely use any army without being completely overwhelmed making the smartest decision in army selection to pick the one you will have the most interest painting, enjoy the look of, the fluff of, and play style to whatever combination suits you because if you dislike the army and only play to win, then your interest will wan and you might find yourself liking the game less and less. I know a couple of people to whom that has happened and it's shame as you could, a detached observer, see that if they only had an army they liked chances are they would still be playing the game and enjoying it.

Besides, if you just want a bash your face in win at all cost army, go play Warmachine/Hordes as the system is far better built for that play style (great fun).

[de Selby]

Well we'll know what 6th is going to bring in a couple of months, so if you play against very beardy opponents you may want to wait and avoid picking a new army that really suffers under the new rules. While we might expect that GW will tweak the rules to put all the codices on a level playing field in reality that's not how they work.

If nids don't change for the worse then I say go for it. GW never seems to balance them right, that's just how it is. The theme is great and the models are great (particularly now we have the flyrant and tervigon). If you're a keen painter and modeller you could just buy a model you like and make it a display piece for now. If things work out it'll be the centre of your new army.

[Saboreth]

Fasha hits it on the head, I think. People trash 'Nids because there's no magic "I WIN" button that pre-empts the notion of strategy or tactics (or thinking like some lists, and you don't pay peanuts to get it. 'Nids can do VERY well in capable hands. A friend of mine says that unlike some beardy lists (IE Space Wolves or GK) the 'Nid player has to -think-, and not just wind up toy his way to victory. It's a finesse army. Find the combination of units that works and your enemies will have a hard time baeting you.

[Notanoob]

While some people like to act like they're worse than Tau, and others act like only idiots lose with them, fact is they play very differently from other armies, and they're tougher to win with. That said, this is not what you should have in mind primarily when starting the army. The strength of the army, or of units or lists or what have you, changes every edition and every update, along with the changes that another army may see in relation to us. If you enjoy the fluff and/or models, you'll have much less trouble sticking with them and feeling good about your investment. So yeah. Do you like their models? Do you like their fluff (read their 4th edition codex's fluff, it's some of the best IMO)? If yes, then go right ahead.

Oh, and always magnetize the limbs for your bigger bugs, and by from online retailers if you don't have a FLGS you feel a need to support.