Warhammer Historical is gone

[yabbadabba]

You are around 50% right there UberBeast

[redben]

What I'm saying is that they already have the products. They have researched, produced, and distributed them. All the hard work of breaking the ice is really done, now it's just a matter of selling. So why is it that a profit margin that works for everyone else in the business (and GW's books are certainly on the high end of the price chart) doesn't work for a company that has much greater experience, resources, and market penetration than everyone else in the business?

It's because of their obsession with Warhammer and Warhammer 40k. They don't want to put a historical book on the shelf next to a Space Marine codex because their market strategy is to FORCE people toward their main systems. It isn't that they don't make money on the historical books, even really good money. It's that they want every dollar gamers spend to go into their extremely over-priced core games because every player hooked can't afford to play other games. It's like walking into a department store clothing department to shop for a sweater and all they have is one brand, one color, and it's so expensive that you could purchase 5 sweaters from someone else for the cost of a single sweater from GW. Their reasoning is that if they do not invest in other products then people will be forced to purchase their single product on GW's terms. And what happens in real life? Well, people stop going to that department store and look for smaller stores that offer a wider range of products and at more reasonable prices.

That's the truth of the so-called good decision to get rid of Warhammer Historical based on profit margins. It's just another step down an unrealistically aggressive and short-sighted marketing strategy lined with missed opportunities and wasted potential.

It's really quite simple. Consumer walks into GW store and sees 40k Codex and historical gaming supplement. Both cost the same to make, are high priced and turn a tidy profit but if the consumer picks up the first GW can continue to keep selling to them. If they pick up the second then GW's relationship ends with them there. Throw in limited shelf space in shops which has to be maximised and the entire sales ethos of the shops being to upsell the product then a historical book is a waste of time, resources and shelf space that would be better served taken up by a core product.

[UberBeast]

It's really quite simple. Consumer walks into GW store and sees 40k Codex and historical gaming supplement. Both cost the same to make, are high priced and turn a tidy profit but if the consumer picks up the first GW can continue to keep selling to them. If they pick up the second then GW's relationship ends with them there. Throw in limited shelf space in shops which has to be maximised and the entire sales ethos of the shops being to upsell the product then a historical book is a waste of time, resources and shelf space that would be better served taken up by a core product.

You have a good point there. It certainly isn't just about profit margin on the books themselves though is it? They make money on the books the same way anyone else does. What is really drawn into question is the need for B&M stores in the first place. Many independent retailers do very well stocking Games Workshop product in addition to hundreds of other products, while Games Workshop stores ONLY sell their core products. Now imagine if you will that Battlefront started opening up stores that only sold Flames of War minis, or Privateer press tried opening up stores that sold only their product lines. Madness you say? Well, we only accept GWs madness because it has been so long established, but the reality is that their business models are outdated and counter productive, and one very good reason is exactly the point you just brought up.

[yabbadabba]

You have a good point there. It certainly isn't just about profit margin on the books themselves though is it? They make money on the books the same way anyone else does. What is really drawn into question is the need for B&M stores in the first place. Many independent retailers do very well stocking Games Workshop product in addition to hundreds of other products, while Games Workshop stores ONLY sell their core products. Now imagine if you will that Battlefront started opening up stores that only sold Flames of War minis, or Privateer press tried opening up stores that sold only their product lines. Madness you say? Well, we only accept GWs madness because it has been so long established, but the reality is that their business models are outdated and counter productive, and one very good reason is exactly the point you just brought up.

I take it you have the figures to back that up Uberbeast and the business plan to replace all that lost turnover, defray the costs and absorb the stock from deleting the retail chain?

[UberBeast]

I take it you have the figures to back that up Uberbeast and the business plan to replace all that lost turnover, defray the costs and absorb the stock from deleting the retail chain?

Dude, stop being a thread-troll.

[yabbadabba]

Dude, stop being a thread-troll.

I am not. You have taken a position, on this thread, which has nothing to do with the subject and I am asking you to justify yourself. If you cannot do that, then that makes you the troll, does it not?

WHH was always a personal project, a sideline with little opportunity unless GW moved into miniatures, something it was not going to do. As soon as the suits began to talk about what GW does, and that meant selling toy soldiers, WHH's number was only safe while there were old school hobbyists at the top. WHH has always fitted on the fringe of GWs product lines and has, in my observations, needed that patronage to keep going. For all his great things, Rob Broom left a disorganised mess of a personal fiefdom behind which also did not help matters. Without a miniature line, without an old school hobbyist providing protection, and without a booming sales company WHH was a dead man walking.

Now what that has to do with the retail business, well over to you.

[ted1138]

Damn, I'd only just got my local game club/shop to believe me there was a games line called Warhammer Historical, and now they've gone and shut down(not the club/shop)...

[redben]

Damn, I'd only just got my local game club/shop to believe me there was a games line called Warhammer Historical, and now they've gone and shut down(not the club/shop)...

If it's any consolation your LGS couldn't stock any WHH stuff anyway as FW made it direct only. Tell them that there's historical games out there by the guy who used to run WHH (War & Conquest), by the guy responsible for all things Warhammer (Hail Caesar) and a game which is very much like WAB (Clash of Empires). All of which are in print, well supported and well worth stocking

[big p from gmg]

For those wondering about KGN... Something new on the horizon from Mr. Kinrade and chums;

http://www.guildwargamers.com/phpBB3...?f=266&t=23214

[kasrkinsquad]

I think Forgeworld would have found more success with WHH if they closed down the seperate site and added it to their main site. I think it would have increased sales a bit.

ALso GMG any ideas on how Mr. Kinrade plans to release KGK?

[big p from gmg]

Yup.

Cat say as yet though.

[decker_cky]

I think Forgeworld would have found more success with WHH if they closed down the seperate site and added it to their main site. I think it would have increased sales a bit.

FW would have had some success, but the issue is that they still wouldn't make models. About the only way WHH was going to become viable would be for FW to hire more sculptors and make another modelling arm, like they've done for Warhammer Forge. But that's a lot of investment into something far from GW's core.

[Codsticker]

Yup.

Cat say as yet though.

Perhaps you can give us a hint: will it be published by himself or an already established company?

[Gwyddyon]

While I agree that selling rules without minis is not consistent with GW's business model, I absolutely disagree with this notion that doing so cannot generate a profit. Were that the case, Field of Glory, LaSalle, and dozens of other rules sets would not exist. It's a silly excuse with little basis in reality that I can see.

[Codsticker]

I think that the arguement is not that they do not generate a profit, it is that they do not sell miniatures that GW manufactures and in the context of GW's current buisness model, maintaining WHH (as low cost as it is) does not have the potential to yield MOAR!!! profit.

[Wintermute]

Its just another example of cost cutting by GW.

[ted1138]

Its just another example of cost cutting by GW.

I think it's a little more than that...

[redben]

While I agree that selling rules without minis is not consistent with GW's business model, I absolutely disagree with this notion that doing so cannot generate a profit. Were that the case, Field of Glory, LaSalle, and dozens of other rules sets would not exist. It's a silly excuse with little basis in reality that I can see.

I'm pretty certain everyone here has said WHH can generate a profit. That isn't the point. It's the level of profit it can generate and the level of profit GW needs a product to generate to make it viable.

[UberBeast]

Companies don't always follow the best business plan. Personally I think this was a stupid move on their part, and one that is merely a symptom of the kind of thinking that will see similar bad moves in the future. We can only speculate on the reasons why they closed down Warhammer Historical; low profit margin, incompatibility with their core products, or simple short-sightedness. For all we know Warhammer Historical merely fell prey to internal politics where a project head for one or both of GW's mainstream game lines pushed the board to cut Warhammer Historical rather than cut funding to their own departments. It may simply be that GW doesn't have the money to keep too many projects going.

We can make up straw-man arguments all day, but in the end it comes down to this: they had a popular product that the public wanted and they decided not to sell it.

[Codsticker]

We can only speculate on the reasons why they closed down Warhammer Historical; low profit margin, incompatibility with their core products, or simple short-sightedness. For all we know Warhammer Historical merely fell prey to internal politics where a project head for one or both of GW's mainstream game lines pushed the board to cut Warhammer Historical rather than cut funding to their own departments. It may simply be that GW doesn't have the money to keep too many projects going.

Correct- it could be any one of, or- more likely- a combination of any of those things.

We can make up straw-man arguments all day...

... I don't think anybody did that.