Warhammer Historical is gone

[Ben]

I hadn't paid much attention and thought the 50% sale was to get rid of stock for the old edition.

[Iron Puritan]

A degree of warning that they were ending would have been nice, assuming they have some stock left- for completeness, I'd have liked that last WAB armies supplement to go with my rules...

My understanding is that they were unloading a lot of stock at slashed prices through their web store for a while, put the prices up to msrp for a bit, then sold a whole mess of stuff at slashed prices at Salute. There was speculation about whether or not this signalled the end, and it turns out that was the case.

[Iron Puritan]

I don't there was any kind of battle between a pro- and anti-historical faction in GW to keep WHH going. It seems just to be the case that they found themselves with WHH by accident, it wasn't making them any money so they tried their best to find a solution, couldn't find a one that worked so in the end had to can it.

The existence of Warhammer Historical was primarily due to a handful of individuals. The project had fewer advocates within the company as people left the fold. The history of Warhammer Historical is one of counterintuitive business decisions. It would be simply polite and an attempt to not burn bridges for the parties involved to downplay certain aspects of the history. The sad part is that Games Workshop actually had a good product on their hands and could have enjoyed something better than cult status. Because the historical market is one that has actual toe-to-toe competition (who would pay GW prices for historicals?), Warhammer Historical came close to violating the Omerta like dynamic GW came to foster regarding other miniature manufacturers.

[redben]

The history of Warhammer Historical is of GW being saddled with a line they didn't want, wasn't making them money and never would make them money without an extensive refocusing of their business.

[aa.logan]

Realistically, it was pretty clear even at the time that the 50% sale was that warning. It was certainly widely recognised as such here on this forum. Could GW have been honest about it, and called it a Closing Down Sale? Yes they could, and that would have been fairer on people who didn't pick up the hint... but reading between the lines didn't take the precognitive powers of Nostradamus.

I bought a fair bit in the 50% sale after reading about it on this forum.

I didn't pick up any particularly doom-y vibe, though I don't doubt there was one.

Any doubts I did have about the line's future were dismissed by the appearance of the brand new book- certainly, I didn't expect it to be abruptly and absolutely withdrawn from sale. But then I didn't hear about hem slashing prices at Salute, so I should have probably kept more up-to-date...

[Ben]

The brand new Armies of Antiquity made me think they were ditching the outdated stock as it would be superseded by newer supplements.

Does anyone on the board actually own a copy of it?

[DarkWarrior1981]

Yup, I have one!

It is sad that they are closed just like this. Some note would have been nice, as I was planning to buy the Flying Circus come June...oh well, maybe somewhere a used copy is for sale.

[kasrkinsquad]

That is odd actually that they released flying circus and Armies of Antiquity.

[ZeroTwentythree]

I'm a little less certain about this, but Hail Caesar might be the Warmaster alternative. The rules are practically Warmaster Ancients 2.0 (3.0? With some elements similar to Mantic's Kings of War), right down to the reduction to 120mm unit frontage for 10mm minis - or three Warmaster stands.

HC was definitely inspired by Warmaster, and a further evolution (through the additional distillation of Black Powder) of many of the mechanics. But it's still a bit of a different game.

You could try Wings of War then, since that was what AI was lifted from.

I'm always ready to put in a plug for Canvas Eagles/Blue Max. Good game & available as a free download.

The brand new Armies of Antiquity made me think they were ditching the outdated stock as it would be superseded by newer supplements.

Does anyone on the board actually own a copy of it?

They were sending mixed signals. The whole catalog of books was on sale, not just WAB. But then, as you said, they released AoA2 (as well as Richthofen) and it was stated that they would be putting PDFs online to fill in the missing army lists that were left out of AoA2. Obviously, the latter never even happened.

[Iron Puritan]

The history of Warhammer Historical is of GW being saddled with a line they didn't want, wasn't making them money and never would make them money without an extensive refocusing of their business.

Bear in mind that it was never about being unable to make money due to undesirable products. There are still plenty of historical gamers out there who use rules sold by Warhammer Historical and that market was quite loyal. Handled properly, it could have provided a stable, if modest, revenue stream. The management made several key decisions along the way which closed them off from opportunities to move product or develop the brand's market position, effectively choking the venture. There are a number of things they could have done differently, but that is academic at this point.

[Stuart-GreatEscapeGames]

There are some very intuitive discussions going on here, very similar with the chat I had with Rick Priestley and a current senior GW employee (though not in the WHH department) at the Partizan show on Sunday.

kasrkin, as I understand it, Armies of Antiquity (and, I suppose, Flying Circus) had already had enough money spent on them to justify carrying them through as the final productions.

[yabbadabba]

I never understood, Stuart, why GW were frightened of spreading their wings and being more experimental when it came to wargames. FW, BL etc I can understand, but toy soldiers?

Still it gave you and Mark the opportunity to produce some good games mate ;-)

[redben]

Bear in mind that it was never about being unable to make money due to undesirable products. There are still plenty of historical gamers out there who use rules sold by Warhammer Historical and that market was quite loyal. Handled properly, it could have provided a stable, if modest, revenue stream. The management made several key decisions along the way which closed them off from opportunities to move product or develop the brand's market position, effectively choking the venture. There are a number of things they could have done differently, but that is academic at this point.

I don't doubt that WHH could have turned a tidy profit. It's more that if I look at it from a GW top-down position instead of a historical gamer bottom-up position I don't see much of a reason for GW to attempt to do anything with it.

[Iron Puritan]

That's exactly it. That kind of change in mindset can be difficult for some businesses to swallow. Games Workshop would have had to switch from their conventional passive model of relying on new customers "discovering" them to getting out in the world and adopting an active model that pursued new business and engaged in competition.

[PsychosisPC]

Someone asked if anyone had AoA 2.0, yes I do and so did many who played the WAB Tourneys at Adepticon, as most of the entrants chose to use it for their army list. I really like WAB 2, so if I pick up another system it will need to be something similar, I'm not into Warmaster or the mechanics of HC.

[Stuart-GreatEscapeGames]

Cheers dude! The message at GW was always that the core business was fantasy toy soldiers. I was always glad that they did not enter the historical figures fray, besides it's only a fraction of the wargaming pie.

It will be an interesting time for us. The last 2 weeks has been our busiest for a long time but I like a bit of real work for a change! The rest of this year is certainly is a biggie, with us releasing another CoE book, plus yet another in the first half of 2013, and a 3rd historical gaming system...

[UberBeast]

I was on your website last week, and I'm certainly going to be watching it in the future.

[redben]

I also picked up AoA2. TBH you don't need the book to play, it's main purpose is for tournament play.

My CoE arrived yesterday, W&C is in the dreaded "processing" stage at Maelstrom.

[Codsticker]

I will be picking up CoE and AoR next month. I may get WaC as well just for ***** and giggles. I imagine that whichever company gets out there to shows/gamedays/tournaments will probably be the one to step into the breach made by the closing of Warhammer Historicals and become the default system for playing historicals.

[yabbadabba]

Cheers dude! The message at GW was always that the core business was fantasy toy soldiers. I was always glad that they did not enter the historical figures fray, besides it's only a fraction of the wargaming pie.

It will be an interesting time for us. The last 2 weeks has been our busiest for a long time but I like a bit of real work for a change! The rest of this year is certainly is a biggie, with us releasing another CoE book, plus yet another in the first half of 2013, and a 3rd historical gaming system...

As soon as I am teaching mate, I will become a dedicated customer