random dice rolls?

[bad dice]

Eh, why do you think that?

Cause it's true?

I mean stick your unit in terrain and laugh if he roll's double 1

Way to go

40k Has it way worse than fantsy imho

[Cambion Daystar]

Ok, but that is only in specific circumstance, a not general rule.

[The bearded one]

Ok, but that is only in specific circumstance, a not general rule.

Like when any unit is in terrain, or wants to run? It's fairly general, and 1 D6" of charge (even if its the highest out of 2 dice) is a lot more random than a fixed distance (movementstat) + 2D6

[Cambion Daystar]

True, but it comes much less into play than in fantasy.

Also, i wonder how much the "improvement" people notice from the random charge are not because of the random charge, but because of the step up rule and the strike on initiative.

[The bearded one]

True, but it comes much less into play than in fantasy.

In fantasy it has to be used 100% of the time (though some charges are so close, you automatically make them anyway), so obviously it comes into play a larger portion of the time than in 40K, but it will be used seriously often in 40K. Against my Tau my opponents are probably going to have to roll distance to assault about 75% of the time. It really isn't a rule that "comes up sometimes for specific situations", but is probably going to come up at least a few times in just about any game

[IcedCrow]

I can guarantee you if we play a game of 40k you'll be rolling random charges against me fairly often. I play defensive shooty armies and i'm always in terrain. Not only that but I'm quite fond of the CTan power that makes the table dangerous terrain so there's a lot of movement dice rolling on the table.

There's very little difference other than psychological between 40k and fantasy's "random movement".

[T10]

I'm thinking that marching might as well be changed to a Movement + 2d6 mechanic without really damaging the game.

-T10

[DaemonReign]

Yeah the 8" shuffle. Where the person who misguessed that 0.001" and got into charge range by accident first lost the game.

+1

It was just terrible in 7th Ed to be honest. Not only did 'tactics' come down to something as dry and unassociated as having a good eye for millimeter measurements, let's also not forget that whenever something came down to 0.001" you'd inevitably end up with one party feeling cheated because there just wasn't measurements exact enough to make a clear ruling - you ended up 'rolling off' every other game because that last fraction of an inch just became a subjective issue completely dependant on whether you wanted the charge to the a success or not.

In 8th Edition we have been saved from these austere arguments of ranges because you can pre-measure and then let the dice decide what happens. There's a true element of 'tactics' in the sense of risk-management etcetera.

Random Charges, thus, in my opinion represents one of the many grand improvements in this edition. It's one of those things that now that we have it, it's hard to even imagine it was ever done any other way.

[Cambion Daystar]

Yeah the 8" shuffle. Where the person who misguessed that 0.001" and got into charge range by accident first lost the game.

But that was in a situation where both units want to charge. That is now completely gone with step up and strike in initiative.

[The bearded one]

But that was in a situation where both units want to charge. That is now completely gone with step up and strike in initiative.

You're not arguing for the fixed charge distances, are you? Even if the charge was still as important as it used to be, the 8 inch shuffle is (rightfully so) gone.

Step up, strike in initiative (and steadfast, don't forget steadfast), prevent a unit that is charged from being overrun in one go, but it doesn't mean that random charges are an unnecessary addition. The fixed charge distances of 7th and earlier only lead to slowing down the game and arguments over wether a unit is within 8" or 8.1".

[Balerion]

I count myself in the "man I love random charging" camp.

In fact, I hope they slip it into 6th edition 40K. That and pre-measuring, naturally!

[quietus1986]

I hope so to for 40k pre-measuring and random charge. like the say half the time the troops you charge are in terrain.

[The Low King]

But that was in a situation where both units want to charge. That is now completely gone with step up and strike in initiative.

Anything with Impact hits or other bonus's on the charge still wants to charge. There is also a huge tactical advantage from an overrun or from being the one who can line up the units; dont want this vulnerable character in combat? right, put him right on the corner of the unit. And of course you get to avoid being combo-charged youself.

[IcedCrow]

Anything with Impact hits or other bonus's on the charge still wants to charge. There is also a huge tactical advantage from an overrun or from being the one who can line up the units; dont want this vulnerable character in combat? right, put him right on the corner of the unit. And of course you get to avoid being combo-charged youself.

Exactly. There are still a lot of bonuses to charging. If you put charges back to fixed length charges, you'd still have the eight inch mexican hat dance shuffle going on, which is totally how war was NOT fought and IMO destroys any level of immersion I may have had when it goes on. (one of the strong reasons why I quit 7th edition warhammer and stayed away from the game for three years until 8th ed was released, the other being the MSU meta where every army was a bunch of little skirmisher / cav units trying to outflank each other which removed the mainline infantry from the table which again was not how most battles were ever fought and destroyed immersion for me)