If two units with generals or any other characters are in combat and a challenge goes through. The other models in the unit attack after the challenge right?
If two units with generals or any other characters are in combat and a challenge goes through. The other models in the unit attack after the challenge right?
The models in the unit still fight each other. The characters in the challenge are having their own duel at the same time.. Overkill wounds are added to the combat resolution.. Important to note that if the characters are both still alive after their bout and one of the units breaks and flees, the character in that unit will also break and flee with his unit..
I don't know what you precisely mean with a challenge "goes through", but I'll assume that you mean that a challenge is issued and accepted. Yes: The other models in the unit may have an opportunity to fight.Originally Posted by monkey10120
Notice that...
- the models in the challenge still fight in the normal initiative order. If a model is slain in a challenge, his space is immediately filled with by a new model from the unit. That model may fight from his new position when his initiative count comes up.
- some models that don't fight in the challenge may end up in contact with only an enemy model that is fighting in a challenge: These do not get to fight since models must allocate their attacks to enemies in contact and they cant allocate attacks against a model in a challenge.
Will Orc for food!
Here's one I've not been 100% sure of; do the models giving supporting attack behind a character fighting a challenge get to throw slaps into the unit?
Yes, but only if the they would be able to hit the unit that is on the sides of the challenge.
O&G Warboss
Tri-Cities Warhammer/WarMachine Hangout
Thanks for the quick replies. The combat res chart would have answered my question because over kill is in there, but i never even thought about it.
Last edited by monkey10120; 25-05-2012 at 14:36.
This seems to be a common misconception when it comes to challenges since everyone seems to fight them separately and before the rest of the units fight. One important distinction that can occur is that wound overflow from a unit can kill a champion in a challenge before he gets to strike so fighting the challenge before the rest of the units fighting can incorrectly give a model an attack he might not normally get if you were to fight the challenge correctly(Initiative Order).
The overflow is only for the champion of the unit. Not a character in a unit. A character would not be killed by more wounds then they are in the unit.
O&G Warboss
Tri-Cities Warhammer/WarMachine Hangout
Overflow would not kill the champion if he is in a challenge.
There is nothing in the challenge rules preventing overflow from not killing the champion, simply that models not in the challenge with the champion may not direct attacks towards him. It doesn't mean he's exempt from overflow.
Not sure about what you mean by "throw slaps" but if you are talking about how models get to allocate their supporting attacks, it works like this: the models making supporting attacks can direct these against enemy models in base contact with the front rank model in front of them - see p. 49.
So if the front rank model is in a challenge and is in base contact with one or more additional models not involved in the challenge, then the models behind him may target those additional models. If the front rank model is only in contact with the enemy challenger then the guys making supporting attacks are out of luck: they can't attack the enemy challenger and they have no other legal targets.
-T10
Will Orc for food!
Never mind: Hamstwheel got it.
Will Orc for food!
To GodlessM's question, let's say a horde is fighting a narrower unit and the challenge occurs on the corner. The model directly behind the challenge can direct its attacks diagonally and so can add to the fight against models outside the challenge. However, the models on the outside only in contact with the challenge are not in base contact with any models they can allocate attacks too, so they cannot attack. Putting characters and champions on the corners could reduce the number of attacks back in some instances.
The language on p99 of the BRB last paragraph of close combat.
What does everyone mean by overflow? Are you talking about instability or a breath weapon attack?
See p. 93 regarding how excess wounds to the unit eventually cause the death of the champion.
Will Orc for food!
Thanks. I guess I knew part of that rule in that the champion dies last. The part I didnt realize is that the champion can be targeted just like a character by models in base contact. But the rule on challenges is clear on p102 that models in a challenge cannot be hurt by attacks outside the challenge. So overflow to a champion in a challenge is not possible.
Rank n file don't get to stab the champion in the back during a challenge!
The highlighted text is incorrect. The section Fighting a Challenge stipulates that the two models in a challenge must direct all of their attacks into each other and that other models may not attack the two that are in a challenge. At no point does it stipulate that excess wounds to the unit do not overflow onto a unit champion. In other words, you can kill a unit champion without directing any attacks into him, thereby not violating any of the challenge rules.
So, is the champion in base contact with rank & file when in a challenge? I don't think so. To me these overflow attacks would be wasted.
What, are rank & file models sneaking up and stabbing a champion in the back, but wouldn't do that to a character? Seems inconsistent to me.
Completely agree with overflow wiping out the champion if it's not in a challenge. Is there an FAQ I'm missing?
No its just a situation that is so rare it will almost never come up.
But i gues that its a rule you could exploind if you are say fighting something realy nasty and a lone character. Whit a stubborn unit
I that cas you single champ could survive and hold up the enemey. And that might be considerd strange so maby that's why the rules are like this
Or maby its just so so rare it never came up during playtesting.
In fact in 15 years it has never happend to me that a champ lived in a chalange and the rest of the unit got whiped out.
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