Your thoughts on the SM Stormtalon

[KaisKlip]

Is it just me or is the GW design department's process of designing Space Marine fliers simply;

1)Take Thunderhawk
2) Squeeze it together by half
3) Model already exists? Go to 4
4) Squeeze it some more

I mean c'mn, you had see it with the Stormhawk or whatever that Grey Knight flier is, and now they went and squeezed it again to make this new stumpy bumble-bee-lookin thing.

It's not that it looks "wrong" or out of place, it's just that it seems it was "too easy" for the design dept - you guys see my point? Don't get me wrong, I love the Thunderhawk model - its awesome. Not a hater of the said GK flier either (although dreadnought clamps -_-), but I feel the dept was lacking in creativity on their latest model.

I know most vehicles are based on a "base" hull, say the aforementioned fliers or the predator and the rhino, and I'm all for that, but I can't just help looking at the Cestis Assault Ramp for example, and seeing that the design is original, while still looking like it belongs to an Astartes force (I know it's FW).

So is anyone here a particular fan of the new Stormtalon, model-wise? And rules wise, how is one not served better by choosing one over a land speeder w/ assault cannon or cyclone missile launcher vs infantry or Melta vs armour? Just want some thoughts from anyone who has actually seen the model or experienced it in action.

[Grot]

I want to preface my following comments with the fact that I fully support playing for fun and bending the rules to have fun. With that said.

As to the idea that chapters have different equipment because of a different manufacturing system, well I understand that but also find it hard to believe that Chapters keep their successes secret from one another. It makes sense that the Blood Angels would keep the flaw a secret but the StormRaven? Seems odd. The things that make chapters different is their character not their hardware.

Perhaps ironically, you picked the most famous example of chapters keeping their successes from each other. The Baal predator is not shared, with anyone, despite Mars's repeated attempts to study the design. That isn't to mention their flying librarian dreadnoughts either.

I'll post some pic's when the second is finished. I also have to mention something i thought of the other day, i find it hard to believe the Ravenwing of the Dark Angels wouldn't have any Stormtalons? food for thought lol

And then here is the second best example of the space marine factions refusing to share their toys. The master of the ravenwing literally rides around on the last known jetbike. That thing should be handed over to Mars so they can study it and build a thousand more.

They are all on the same side after all...

As players, we know that, because they're all space marines. But in the fluff, even the space marines hate each other and do not think they are on the same side. Or at least, they do not trust each other, so they wouldn't share weapons, because the other guy is totally going to use those weapons against them. The space wolves HATE psykers, but maintain rune priests because it doesn't count. The Black Templars want to put an end to ALL psykers and find Librarians disgusting. Codex and Radical factions are simultaneously both traitors or shining examples of what you should be doing - it depends on who you're talking to.

Why can't the Imperial Fists gain access to Dreadknights, or why don't the Crimson Fists buy some cyberwolves from Fenris to ride around on? It's definitely a subject for a different thread, but either all the space marine books are different and need to be separate, or they all get the same stuff, so what is the reason they need separate codexes?

Arguably, I could go buy a stormraven for my genestealer cult and use it in friendly games. It's not for 'my' army, but if my friends are cool with it, it might be fun. But then where should it end? Why can't the dark eldar use wraithlords? Why wouldn't the Sisters of Battle use basilisks? And it's all just downhill from there.

The model itself, I agree with the general consensus that it COULD look ok, with a bit of cosmetic work. A ton of people agree that removing the rotor thing on the chin makes it look better, and lengthening the wings and what-not - so why didn't GW think of these things? Or ask someone else for their opinion?

I voted abomination, even though the model is clearly meant to be the base of a wacky ork skimmer. But it's an abomination for two reasons outside of how it looks - it really isn't cool that the orks, of all people, got THREE skimmers before BOTH the Eldar and the Tau. I'm not ungrateful that the orks are getting so much love after ten years, but I remember how those ten years felt. I can't imagine how mad I'd be if some other codex stole one of my armies defining traits while my army got nothing for the sixth (seventh?) year in a row. Yes, the space marines got one because they're space marines, but the 'first' three flyers they released should have been: Space Marines, Tau, and Eldar. The necrons just got their second wave, and as far as orks go, we would have been fine with the rules and a footnote that reads "there sure are a lot of cool model planes in hobby shops...", both armies didn't need to go first.

The second reason is mostly what I've been rambling on about in the body of my post - every space marine +1 codex now wants to know why the vanilla space marine codex got new toys and they didn't, which means that GW will hear this and bump EVERY space marine codex higher up the queue ahead of all the less important armies. But they can't just get the stormtalon. All the space marine +1 codexes who get it will also end up getting something new, and then the vanilla marines will need something new too! And they get bumped up ahead of the less important armies again - the xenos armies. And that's a shame.

The abomination isn't how it looks but the two ideas it personifies - GW can't be bothered with near-universal fan feedback that would improve its products, and GW is free to toss aside long-suffering codexes in favor of more space marines.

Edit - Spelling

[Aegius]

Is it just me or is the GW design department's process of designing Space Marine fliers simply;

1)Take Thunderhawk
2) Squeeze it together by half
3) Model already exists? Go to 4
4) Squeeze it some more

As an owner of both a thunderhawk and a stormtalon, I can say that the two are a lot less similar than you believe. I'd even go as far as to say that the stormtalon has more in common with the valkyrie than the thunderhawk.

[KaisKlip]

Mm, I agree since I advised a friend to convert one using a rhino and Valkyrie wings, I was just overreacting at the "box" shape of the new flyer ^_^

[Enigma6]

I'm thinking something along the lines of putting the assault cannons into the side sponsons and buying/making-something-like the cyclone launcher for the contemptor dread and putting that on the chin.

That might be too big though. maybe the cyclone from the terminator kit would fit better? but when do I ever have one of those spare?

If that doesn't look like its going to work then i have plenty of ravenwing sprues to go for that conversion instead.

[Enigma6]

After chatting on here yesterday about should I or even can I legally paint my new Stormtalon in BloodAngels colour scheme, I just bit the bullet and thought I'll just go for it, let me know what you think?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7446253...n/photostream/

I presume your aloud to put links on here?

I do like how these models look together. Depending on what will be in the next DA codex I'm hoping to do something similar, though I'll probably be using a stormeagle. (hoping this gets more viable soon)

Out of interest what did u use to make that Assault cannon turret for your stormraven? I feel like I recognize the parts but I cant quite place them. It is a massive improvement over the stock turret.

[radical ed]

I love my stormtalon. I didnt use the Assualt Cannons that came with it. I used the ravenwing Ass cans from the battleforce. No cutting involved and they fit perfectly. Makes it look so much better. But i do like the look of it anyway.

I also used the stormtalons ass cans to add to the bottom hull of the stormraven, so i could get rid of the turrent. By moving back the top vent, and covering the turrent hole, the stormraven is now a great looking flyer.

[KaisKlip]

Seeing The Betrayer's side by side pic of the 'talon sends my thoughts back round again - the wings and the rotors are simply too short and small to keep the thing in the air - its like seeing a dodo or a penguin fly; it just ain't gonna happen.

Either the wings must be elongated or it needs to have 2.5x bigger rotor blades to look good to my eye. I know that holds no validity ^_^ so I'll just be making sure to make it the first thing I train my anti-armour on to put my mind at ease.

If anyone has conversions that address my issues, please please please post a pic

[The Betrayer]

I do like how these models look together. Depending on what will be in the next DA codex I'm hoping to do something similar, though I'll probably be using a stormeagle. (hoping this gets more viable soon)

Out of interest what did u use to make that Assault cannon turret for your stormraven? I feel like I recognize the parts but I cant quite place them. It is a massive improvement over the stock turret.

I too would like the Stormtalon to be come more available in an official capacity, i must say though i think GW shops are making it available for any Space marine chapter to use. I went into one of my local GW shops and to my suprise customers where using them in battles that where being fought, x2 Black Templar Talons x1 Space Wolf Talon and a Dark Angels Talon, kind of put my mind at rest in respect to my 2 lol

As for my Raven turret conversion, it's the mount surround for the Vulcan mega bolter from a Storlord, heavily chopped lol. I personally aren't keen on the original turret so a change was needed. I've just done a similar conversion to my new Land raider crusader, i'm not keen on the space marine firing the Multi melta, so i've done a small turret similar to the Forgeworld Razorback!

[brightblade]

Dear Grot.

All valid points.

Don't agree all the way. I think a lot of the 40k fluff is weak, poorly thought through and justified badly. The way this translates into the game is sometimes daft. I like the stormtalon and see no reason why it should not be available to all marine armies other than a rather arbitrary decision to say that it isn't in order to create a difference between armies that is pointless. All this particular instance means is that they will sell less than they could.

Just my opinion. I personally do not like that marine chapters 'hate' each other. They can 'hate' xenos and traitors but 'hating' other brother marines is daft and a little dull. Simply using it to justify marine on marine action in game is weak. We simply do not play imperial marine vs imperial marine games. We are blessed with a large group with lots of armies, so it is not an issue.


Everybody plays the same game in a different way as we all want different things from it. Simple as.

Ta.

[Beppo1234]

so, flipping through some of the project logs... and was wondering, has anyone tried mounting the engines forward, closer to the cockpit, and the weapons where the engines go? thunderbold-esque?

[The Marshel]

i'm getting a little sick of all the eldar and (to a lesser extent0 tau complaints over other armies getting skimmers. I know they've been starved of releases and deff deserve some new stuff, but i don't think its unreasonable for other armies to have vehicles that share a type class with the eldar. I doubt the IG players get up in arms when gw releases a tracked vehicle for marines.

Seriously, one army doesnt have a monopoly on skimmers and its not a "disgrace" that they didn't get something first. Just release schedules. If gw thought it's be better to release an eldar flyer right now they would have. given they're likely for a new book early 6th, they're probably waiting to use it as the centre piece release for that

[Enigma6]

I'll second the notion that the armies who haven't been given a flyer yet are the ones most likely due a codex update.

You could also argue that the races that GW hasn't released flyers for have been generally well catered for on FW for a while.

It will be very nice when these flyers are in the core codexs with plastic models though. I'm personally really looking forward to seeing the eldar and tau flyers.