What would be in the most power gaming army? - Tournament winners

[ben8s8]

If you were looking for a list which disregarded fluff and its only purpose was to win games [Tournaments] Which army and units would you pick?

I'm not sure how many points most tournaments are played at so if anyone would care to enlighten me, that would be good too!

[Carnage]

Grey Knights. Probably go with henchmen spam and psyfle-dreads. Draigo and purifier lists might work depending on scenario and points limit.

Space Wolves second. Grey Hunter spam + 3 x Long fangs + rune priest.

Imperial guard third. Mech vets w/meltas and vendettas/manticores.

[Sami]

Tourneys vary between 1500 to 2000. GK seem to be the most numerous winners, but then again they are also one of the more common armies. Bring GK doesn't equal an auto-win - you still need to bring a good list and play well. They are more "forgiving" than other armies, but that doesn't mean you can get away with turning your brain off.

While taking the right list is important, knowing WHY that is the right list is even more so. I can list off a bunch of units that you'll want (Purifiers, Henchmen, Dreadnoughts) but the strengths and weaknesses of each, on top of things like target priority and the like takes more space than I can be bothered to type as it varies greatly from opponent to opponent.

That, and a new edition is due out in a month or so which can potentially change everything.

[PRoeske]

Really depends on what scoring system you use. Here in The Netherlands we use a Battlepoint system with book missions:
Basically:
Opponent has all objectives: 2 - 18
Less objectives: 6 - 14
Tie in objectives: 10 - 10
More objectives: 14 - 6
All objectives: 18 - 2

Then a +2/-2 shift dependend on Victory points difference.

It might actually surprise you, but Grey Knights really seem not to be that overpowered when compared to a scoring system where having only 'more' objectivs can get you maximum points.

What GK do really good, is taking a single opbjective and contest everything else, as they need there troops really hard to kill stuff. When playing henchmen, they die too easily to even get close to claim all 3/4/5 objectives on the table.

With beforementioned scoring system i'd say Space Wolves are the best army by far, as they can easily take 5 to 6 scoring units and still support it very nicely with other heavy wargear (Long Fangs, Landspeeder Typhoon, las/plas razorbacks)

Howevee, i have to say this is really dependent on the points limit. Around here we play only 1750 points on tournaments, so armies with cheaper bodies tend to work better.

Example armylists:

space Wolves
- Runepriest @ 100
- 3 wolf guard, combi-melta, rhino @ 104
- 3 wolf guard, combi-melta, rhino @ 104
- 5 wolf guard, 4x combi-melta, 1x combi-flamer @ 115

- 5 grey hunters, meltagun, rhino @ 115
- 5 grey hunters, meltagun, rhino @ 115
- 5 grey hunters, meltagun, rhino @ 115
- 5 grey hunters, meltagun, rhino @ 115
- 5 grey hunters, flamer, razorback, las/plas

- 5 long fangs, 4x missile launcher, razorback /w las/plas @ 190
- 5 long fangs, 4x missile launcher, razorback /w las/plas @ 190
- 5 long fangs, 4x missile launcher, razorback /w las/plas @ 190

- landspeeder, multi-melta, heavy flamer @ 70
- landspeeder, multi-melta, heavy flamer @ 70
= 1742 (add a dozerblade somewhere)


On the other hand, 1750 Grey Knights:

- Librarian, might of titan, shrouding, sanctuary, warp rift, servo-skull @ 175

- 6 purifiers, 5x halberd, 1x hammer @ 159

- 5 strike squad, psycannon, rhino /w searchlight @ 151
- 5 strike squad, psycannon, razorback /w psybolts @ 160
- 6 strike squad, psycannon, daemonhammer, razorback /w psybolts @ 190
- 6 strike squad, psycannon, daemonhammer, razorback /w psybolts @ 190
- 6 strike squad, psycannon, daemonhammer, razorback /w psybolts @ 190

- Dreadnought, 2x autocannon, psybolts @ 135
- Dreadnought, 2x autocannon, psybolts @ 135
- Landraider /w lascannons, multi-melta @ 265
= 1750


3rd, Imperial Guard:
- Company Command Squad, 4x plasmagun, plasmapistol, chimera @ 175
- Company Command Squad, 4x meltagun, chimera @ 145

- 10 veterans, 3x meltagun @ 100
- 10 veterans, 3x meltagun, chimera @ 155
- 10 veterans, 3x meltagun, chimera @ 155
- platoon command squad, 4x plasmagun, chimera @ 145
- infantry squad, autocannon @ 60
- infantry squad, autocannon, commissar @ 95

- Vendetta @ 130
- Vendetta @ 130

- 2x hydra flak tank @ 150
- 2x hydra flak tank @ 150
- Manticore @ 160

In these lists you can also see the main point why IG isn't winning as much around here as it probable should do. Compared to Space Wolves you only have 13 infantry models and a single vehicle more, while all your models are only T3/5+. This army just need to show itself sometimes to kill stuff effectively. Whenever a guard unit does so, you might as well remove it from the table.

They are suffering kind of the same problem as grey knights. They are really good at winning games. Just not that good dat scoring 20-0.

However, i have to admit that in a system compared to the European Team Championship or NOVA, all of these armies are killing machines and do contest evenly for 'most OP army around'.

Pim

[edit] swift army break-down:
Imperial Guard:
- 65 infantry
- 12 vehicles
- 5 multi-laser/Heavy Flamer
- 6 twin-linked lascannons
- 6 autocannons (4 twin-linked)
- 13 meltaguns
- 8 plasmaguns
- 1 manticore launcher

Space Wolves:
- 52 infantry
- 12 vehicles
- 12 missile launchers
- 4 las/plas turrets
- 14 meltaguns (10 1-shot)
- 2 flamers (1 1-shot)
- 2 multi-melta/heavy flamer

Grey Knights:
- 35 infantry
- 8 vehicles
- 5 psycannons
- 5 heavy bolters (4 S6)
- 2 twin lascannons
- 30 stormbolters
- 4 twin-linked autocannons (S8)

[russellmoo]

Grey knights and space wolves both do really well and have very strong codices under the current rules set-

Blood angels, necrons (potentially- with the new scarab farm lists), and imperial guard also have some very good/tough lists- you just have to steer clear of certain things- but the above two can do well with most things in their dexes, as long as you know how to put together a good list-

[Reivax26]

In my opinion its Grey Knights in first, then Space Wolves, then Necron with the Scarab Farm/Imotek nonsense, then IG and 5th would be Dark Eldar with the Venom/Raiders/Ravagers setup. Grey Knights of course take first because well they are the most OP army ever made. Wolves could be played by a 10 year old with their current setup and he would probably still have a 80% win ratio. Necron Scarab Farm is just plain dirty. IG are still good but to be honest I think that their hayday is over as the top army in the game. Dark Eldar with the vehicle spam can be a really dangerous army too. They are pretty much the only army that can actually stand up to the Draigowing idiocy and kill the Paladins with all the Dark Lances and poison weapons it can bring to bear.

My 2 cents

[Clarkson]

what is this necron scarab farm?

as if i'm ever gonna field necrons again (considering how much fluff they butchered and the other stuff that is rubbish imho) it will be with a list i can take to a tournie and not worry about pissing people off with it

[DigitalDogParty]

what is this necron scarab farm?

as if i'm ever gonna field necrons again (considering how much fluff they butchered and the other stuff that is rubbish imho) it will be with a list i can take to a tournie and not worry about pissing people off with it

It's not a petty set up. You just field a bunch of scarabs that just charge high priorities (Mainly vehicles and armor) and it's over. I once got the jump on a Baneblade and three Chimeras with one squad of Scarabs on the first turn. Entropic Strike'd them all in which every vehicle exploded; my friend instantly gave up. Of course, it wasn't my army and it was the first time I played as the new Necrons.

[Sekhmet]

It's not a petty set up. You just field a bunch of scarabs that just charge high priorities (Mainly vehicles and armor) and it's over. I once got the jump on a Baneblade and three Chimeras with one squad of Scarabs on the first turn. Entropic Strike'd them all in which every vehicle exploded; my friend instantly gave up. Of course, it wasn't my army and it was the first time I played as the new Necrons.

You're also putting all your eggs into one basket. Hope they don't have a heavy incinerator or hellhound sitting around. One shot pretty much destroys the entire squad of scarabs.

[Reivax26]

The guy at the local store runs 9 Spyders behind them pumping out more into the squad of never ending lunacy. They can rip apart tanks like they are nothing and mow down pretty much any squad out there with their stupid amount of attacks. Yeah they are Str and T 3...big whoop when each base has 5 attacks on a charge and they have move 6, run d6, and charge 12! He runs all that, some Wraiths who have become way better than they were before and Imotek sitting in the back making it nightfight for practically the whole game. Also since it isn't a psychic power you can't negate it.

[DigitalDogParty]

You're also putting all your eggs into one basket. Hope they don't have a heavy incinerator or hellhound sitting around. One shot pretty much destroys the entire squad of scarabs.

I didn't forgot how much a full unit of Scarabs are, but it wasn't that expensive for what it could possibly do. Yeah, they can be completely wiped out in one turn or one shot, but I didn't worry that much. There aren't any Grey Knights around and they never use Hellhounds. I placed my Scarabs in one spot, then used that C'tan ability to redeploy them into a much better position. I wouldn't recommend going heavy on them, but that one moment WAS pretty funny and cool.

[Reivax26]

I am hoping that if this topic gets brought up about 5 months from now people will be screaming and whining about how awesome the new Chaos Codex is....Blood for the Blood God!

[Rated_lexxx]

You're also putting all your eggs into one basket. Hope they don't have a heavy incinerator or hellhound sitting around. One shot pretty much destroys the entire squad of scarabs.

It's not putting all your eggs in one basket, the list plays against the tourney meta. If and when that meta changes then the list value will go down greatly

[BrainFireBob]

So, the point of this is?

[Sekhmet]

It's not putting all your eggs in one basket, the list plays against the tourney meta. If and when that meta changes then the list value will go down greatly

The tourney meta is very silly at the moment. It utilizes heavy mech to kill heavy mech. Everyone mechs! Yes, scarabs are decidedly anti-mech (multi charging!), but that doesn't make it any less eggs-in-one-basket.

In combat, grey knights also tend to kill scarabs, killing a base for every hit+wound.

[Konovalev]

I'd say the most power gamey army would be the "leafblower" imperial guard list. Chimeras, melta vets, etc. Expensive though, that's a lot of models to buy and paint which can be daunting especially when some of them are going to spend the entire game in their chimera.

[Cheeslord]

The guy at the local store runs 9 Spyders behind them pumping out more into the squad of never ending lunacy. They can rip apart tanks like they are nothing and mow down pretty much any squad out there with their stupid amount of attacks. Yeah they are Str and T 3...big whoop when each base has 5 attacks on a charge and they have move 6, run d6, and charge 12! He runs all that, some Wraiths who have become way better than they were before and Imotek sitting in the back making it nightfight for practically the whole game. Also since it isn't a psychic power you can't negate it.

I would be surprised if scarab farm (or Necrons in general) become close to the wolf/guard/GK power level in tournaments ... scarab farm can kill vehicles, but they have too many hard counters (as in: easily wipe out all the scarabs). Also, they may have 4 attacks each but other stats in CC are shabby. They really can't kill modern space marines (wolves, BA, GK) in combat for anything like equal points values, and grey knights just autokill them with force weapons.

Wraiths are quite good and can kill the stuff scarabs cant, but they are still beatable by melee specialist units (either with lots of attacks till they fail their 3++ saves, or S8 attacks so they effectively only have 1 wound each) Vanilla THSS terminators are better close combat specialists (but then again they should be as Wraiths pay for that extra mobility)

Mark.

[duffybear1988]

Personally I find Blood Angels a lot harder than Space Wolves -

They have faster tanks, army-wide FNP and FC if you take priests, hard special characters, sanguinary guard, blood talon dreads, etc.

In a straight up fight the BA win every time against SW.

[Carnage]

Personally I find Blood Angels a lot harder than Space Wolves -

They have faster tanks, army-wide FNP and FC if you take priests, hard special characters, sanguinary guard, blood talon dreads, etc.

In a straight up fight the BA win every time against SW.

You sir are crazy. SW are clearly a better army and I won't even argue that fact because it's so obvious.

[bebe]

You sir are crazy. SW are clearly a better army and I won't even argue that fact because it's so obvious.

It's not black and white. It depends on which lists are being used as both have quite a few options. And it also hinges a lot on the point level of the game.