What knowest thou of Witches?

[Dustfinger]

The Knight of brettonia books had a witch as one of the antagonists. She lived in the woods. peole would go to her for help with problems in secret. She stole a young womans body to prolong her own life. had relations with a chaos warlord so she could sacrifice the baby for eternal youth since her body snatching tactics were getting less effective over the years.

[TheDungen]

sounds like flemeth from dragon age

[Eternus]

The Knight of brettonia books had a witch as one of the antagonists. She lived in the woods. peole would go to her for help with problems in secret. She stole a young womans body to prolong her own life. had relations with a chaos warlord so she could sacrifice the baby for eternal youth since her body snatching tactics were getting less effective over the years.

Cool, I just started reading the omnibus!

[WarbossKurgan]

Looking at CommanderCax's post it appears that the warhammer witch is more nuanced and varied than is the early modern stereotype.

I'd say CommanderCax has hit it on the head in Warhammer terms. You have to remember the term 'Witch' means different things, depending who is using it. To a Witch Hunter, a witch is just someone who uses magic and shouldn't: they may be using Hedge Magic, Dark Magic or something else. They may be undead, a mutant or a cultist or a "loyal" citizen of the Empire. To a Witch Hunter they are all criminal and the distinctions would only decide the method used to destroy them.

[Eternus]

I'd say CommanderCax has hit it on the head in Warhammer terms. You have to remember the term 'Witch' means different things, depending who is using it. To a Witch Hunter, a witch is just someone who uses magic and shouldn't: they may be using Hedge Magic, Dark Magic or something else. They may be undead, a mutant or a cultist or a "loyal" citizen of the Empire. To a Witch Hunter they are all criminal and the distinctions would only decide the method used to destroy them.

The witches I have in mind would turn a Witch Hunter into a bloated blue-green toad in an instant. Come meddling will he?!

[TheDungen]

honestly read Joseph Delaney his witches are quite nasty, (we're talking murdering children to power their spells and returning from the dead and that kind of stuff), I'm not saying it all applies to warhammer but I always thought that inspiration was more important anyway. Never let the ip limit you if you want to do something.

[CommanderCax]

Maybe if I elaborate on the reason I asked the question to begin with. I play Vampire Counts, and to avoid jumping on the Necromancer Army bandwagon in quite the same way as many other people, I would like to create a VC army ostensibly based around the use of a Necromancer to lead it, but themed around a coven of Witches. These Witches are the typical haggard old female (unless they choose to appear differently through the use of some spell or potion) that we find in fairytales. whether

In my mind, the Witches will live in houses in the woods, hidden to all but those intended to find them. They are not evil per se, but they will do harm to those they perceive to be a threat. My Witches use potions and spells and charms and believe in the power of nature, so might have links to other nature deities like Taal. They also have the power to raise the dead, but through the use of, charms, pacts and 'natural magics' rather than through study of dark tomes like Necromancers. In fact, they are opposed to the Vampire Counts and Necromancers, believeing that their evil works are anathema to the natural order. The Witches army is one that has been raised in a different way to those raised by the evil works of the Vampire Counts and Necromancers, to stand against them.

They are archetypal Witches, but also seers, and in tune with the shifts in the balance between good and evil.

The witches I have in mind would turn a Witch Hunter into a bloated blue-green toad in an instant. Come meddling will he?!

Sounds great overall.

The problem in my view is though, that in Warhammer humans using witchery successfully over a long time (i.e. surviving) and thereby getting more powerful sort of inevitably begin to draw in Dhar (Dark Magic). This is even moreso the case, when they indeed actively raise the dead, irrespective whether through the study of dark tomes or through charms, pacts and 'natural magics'. Certain charms and pacts might safe them from some of the effects Dark Magic normally has on humans, but especially the latter has its own risk. Using the wind of Shyish (Amethyst) alone could allow communing with the dead, but would not be powerful enough to fully raise the dead. Also, turning a commited Witch Hunter into a toad in an instant is a rather powerful feat, that even the mightiest Amber Magister could not easily accomplish.

Anyway, that should not be a big problem after all. Maybe your witches draw in Dark Magic after all and some might even succumb to it after a while (irrespective of charms and pacts with whomever), but people die every day in less dangerous occupations. Maybe the witch coven kills of those witches that are in danger of bein corrupted by the Dark Magic to heavily.

The aforementioned Hedgefolk from WFRP 2nd ed (featured in Shades of Empire) with a darker tone might still fit. The hag witches from Kislev (at least the Ungol population) are related to them and are mostly depicted with a dark tone (they also often form sort of pacts with vile spirit creatures like the Domovoy, Leshy, Vodyanoy etc.). I think both of them are not really fond of the cult of Taal, though there are certain similiarities between them and the followers of Taal and Rhya. The Old Faith springs to mind as well as does those hedge wizards that declined to accompany Teclis in the founding of the Jade College. The WFRP 2nd ed. adventure campaign The Thousand Thrones also mentions a witch in Sylvania taht might fit your idea (I have to check the book, when I am at hiome tonight).

[Eternus]

Cheers Commander. I am still working on the concept, and you're right, unless the Witches have a way of deflecting the effects of Dark Magic, eventually they will succumb, and possibly become Banshees, Wriaths or some other kind of unquiet spirit. I am considering the idea that they use charms and special symbols marked on the corpses or gravestones of those they raise to attract Dark Magic directly into the corpse, rather than chanelling it themselves. They are manipulating the natural flow of magic, rather than wielding it like a weapon.

I imagine that they might make an effigy of an enemy, like a Witch Hunter, and use it to harm or inhibit them, a bit like a voodoo doll. The spells I imagine they would use would be more about directing the flow of magical power to achive the effects they wish, like building a dam to change the flow of a river, rather than grasping the flow of magic and hurling it at the enemy, like taking a bucket of water from the river and throwing it over someone. Manipulative casting as opposed to direct control casting.

They would also put a lot of magical effort into things like concealment, disguise and general beffudlement spells.

I would appreciate the Thousand Thrones reference if you have time.

[TheDungen]

Maybee they have some way of dispersing the bad effects, some item magic using some sort of amulets or other items, or certain rites that allow them to shed the corruption they have built up.

[Eternus]

Those amulets or charms could store up power and then be used as weapons...

[CommanderCax]

I just found the reference in an expansion for the adventure, but the mentioned Hag of Hunger Wood is actually an ancient Strigoi Vampire it seems. Not that fitting most probably. Take a look here.

In the novel Witch Finder (second book of the Thulman series) an evil hag is featured at the beginning that also uses some sort of vodoo doll if I remember correctly. See here.

[zhu bajie]

You might want to have a look at the WFRP 2E Sourcebook Realms of Sorcery
http://www.amazon.com/Warhammer-Fant.../dp/1844162680
Lots of stuff about how magic and witches work in the Warhammer world.