restarting guard 1500pts

[sakura_ninja]

40K Army: Imperial Guard

This question was first started on heresy
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...d.php?t=111161
Now that I am banned I still would like advice from how far it has progressed

[Mr Zoat]

Personally, if I was going to use al-Rahem I would want his platoon to be full sized. At least five infantry squads (blobbed, without heavy weapons), probably plus special weapon squads, Chimeras optional. A second platoon would hold my line. This one would have heavy weapon squads and heavy weapon teams in the infantry squads. Based on that list I would drop the Ogryn, Valkyrie and Deathstrike.

[russellmoo]

Similar to the above- you could do a foot-guard list and run Al-raheem, + a full mechanized platoon, then run another platoon on foot backed up by a CCS and some artillery- say a basilisk, and some regular LRBT's.

[sakura_ninja]

I don't think I could do a full alrahem platoon, would cost like 680pts before anything.
And sws wouldn't really fit the idea since they can't have chimera.
I might just drop the ogryn and deathstrike, but not the valk, I want the model.

The basi and basic russ aren't in my like list though.

[Mr Zoat]

One Valk isn't going to survive. even at 1500 you should take at least two and find something whichi you want them to transport if you are going to take any.

[sakura_ninja]

It's transporting the storm troopers, and taking 2 would require something else to be added to be carried, take up more pts that need to be reduced to 1500 and would cost more money.

[Mr Zoat]

You're using it to transport 6 guys with two plasma guns? 6 guys who can Deep Strike on their own? How are you planning to use this unit?
If you really want to do this then I suggest using Veterans instead. They can take one more plasma gun and are cheaper.

[sakura_ninja]

But then I don't get to use the stormtrooper models, and deep strike can be hit or miss, I want to image it like the art in the guard dex, with the troopers running from the valk landing zone.

I don't like or see the point in something if the models and mentai image sucks, the point is creating something useful from the models I like, what other point is there?

[Mr Zoat]

Not knowing about how you feel about particular models I can't really help you. I doubt that anyone would mind you using Storm Trooper models to represent Veterans in carapace armour.

[sakura_ninja]

The original thread has what models I like.

[Bunnahabhain]

My comments in italics:
Company command squad
(officer) power weapon (i like creed, but I guess its just waaay too many points)
(squad) Vox-caster, standard bearer, officer of the fleet, astropath, 2 bodyguard 170pts
seriously expensive. Do you need the officer of the fleet? Don't need the bodyguards

Primaris psyker 70pts
Fine, but I'd rather have another scoring squad

3 ogryns (i guess I could drop these, they aren't a major want I suppose) 130pts
Do drop them, they're not good, and this isn't the way to get the best out of them.

6 ratlings 60pts
Fine in a foot list

6 storm troopers(2 plasma guns) 115pts
Use as veterans in carapace armour.

Infantry platoon (gunline/defense,usually combined)
Platoon command squad
(officer) power fist
(squad) Vox caster, autocannon
Powerfist is useless, the officer won't live to use it

2 infantry squads
Commissar, Vox-casters, autocannons, plasma guns. 255pts
you don't need two commissars. Both plasma and autocannons are fine, but mixing them isn't great. Try Grenade launcher and autocannon. Another squad to get the best from the one commissar would be good.

Infantry platoon (flanking/mechanized)
(officer) al-rahem (or some other name hehe)
(squad) meltagun, Vox caster.
Take 3 or 4 special weapons
2 infantry squads
Vox-casters, meltaguns
3 chimera
410pts

Valkyrie, Multiple rocket pods 130pts
fine
Hellhound (this could be dropped, be a shame but it could), 130
fine
2 Sentinels, Autocannons, 80pts
Fine

Executioner (this is heavy pts, maybe could downgrade to eradicator?)
Hull mounted lascannon, sponson mounted heavy bolters 225pts
Go with plasma sponsons, to avoid mixed AP problems. Don't go for the eradicator.
Manticore
160pts
Very good

Deathstrike (this could be dropped despite how awesome it is) 160pts
Drop it, it is aweful

So now it comes to 2095, so that's almost 800pts dropped, but is is now too much taken away?

[sakura_ninja]

Officer of the fleet is a nice model though, and bodyguards allow me fun modelling
Like I said I already own the psyker, not much point not using it.
It's a shame to drop the ogryns as I like the models.
If I use the troopers as vets though with carapace it costs more points, and I worry about people moaning about wysiwyg, plus the hellguns are funny.
But the powetfist looks cool.
It's a commissar, not commissars
Are plasma and cannon really not good?, I would of thought both being str7 would have synergy.
Can't have a 3rd squad, trying to reduce points.
As I say I don't like the whole command weapon spam, I think its really dumb for a command section who should be commanding.
If I put plasma back on the executioner I'm adding allot of pts again, not reducing
Is the desthstrike really so bad?, it looks allot of fun.

[MooseOnTheLoose]

So the army is going to consist of FW renegade kits for all the vets and conversions on the storm troopers. The army has a two wing approach. The idea I had was an offensive wing or attack force that supported itself while the 2nd wing was a defensive/cover fire element. I wanted the feel of the army to be less "tech heavy" and more functional as I felt renegades fit that look more. So here is the list:

Company Command Squad
Power Fist
Medi-pack
Vox Caster
Heavy Flamer
Carapace Armor
Master of Ordnance
Total - 170

Veteran Squad #1
Vox Caster
Grenade Launcher x3
Missile Launcher
Grenadiers
Total - 135

Veteran Squad #2
Vox Caster
Plasma Gun x3
Missile Launcher
Grenadiers
Total -165

Veteran Squad #3
Vox Caster
Sniper Rifle x3
Grenadiers
Total - 120

Veteran Squad #4 with Chimera
Shotguns
Power Weapon
Meltagun x3
Grenadiers
Total - 140

Veteran Squad #5 with Chimera
Shotguns
Power Weapon
Meltagun x3
Grenadiers
Total - 140

Veteran Squad #6 with Chimera
Shotguns
Power Weapon
Flamer x2
Heavy Flamer
Grenadiers
Total - 140

Armored Sentinel Squadron x2
Autocannon x2
Total - 120

Armored Sentinel Squadron x2
Autocannon x2
Total - 120

Chimera - 55 x3
Total - 165

Leman Russ Exterminator
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Total - 170

Storm Trooper Squad
Additional Storm Trooper x5
Total - 165

Valkyrie Assault Carrier Squadron x1
Total - 100

Total - 1850 Points

[MooseOnTheLoose]

The above is a list I have been tinkering with, and have made some changes since, but its what I had available to cut/paste for you. Now I know its not precisely what you want in terms of veterans and not having a couple units, but I feel it probably shows you a fundamental side of what you like, with obvious ability to alter it places like type of LR or less sentinel, weapon load outs etc. Perhaps will give you some things too think about in terms of a attacking wing and a defensive wing which based off of the elements you like fit.

[Mr Zoat]

Deathstrike is a one shot weapon which unless your enemy is very bunched up probably won't do all that much damage even if it fires, an event which is by no means certain.
I think that you could probably drop the Chimeras from al-Rahem's platoon as they will be arriving in a useful position anyway.

[sakura_ninja]

Hmm I guess, still a shame though.

Dropping the chimera is a big no, it would completely take away from what I wanted them to be, basically my flanking cavalry since you can't get good rough riders and the cost is stupid (serious gw £7.70 for 1 model when I want 10?)

[MooseOnTheLoose]

Hmm I guess, still a shame though.

Dropping the chimera is a big no, it would completely take away from what I wanted them to be, basically my flanking cavalry since you can't get good rough riders and the cost is stupid (serious gw £7.70 for 1 model when I want 10?)

2x Marauder Horsemen kit plus box of IG infantry = 10 RR

[sakura_ninja]

I thought of that, but its all the chaos markings, chains, skulls and armour that put me off, and everything else was too medieval or heavily armoured.

[Bunnahabhain]

If you want rough riders... excellent in mainly foot based lists. I have a full platoons worth... but don't like the models/price of models.

Empire Pistollers + bits box. The look better than the mauraders, and cost less
or these
http://www.perry-miniatures.com/prod...oducts_id=1394

However, if you are serious about making a 1500pt list, scrap this list and start again. Decide which units you really like, and will have regardless, then see what roles you still need to fill in the army and pick units to do so. It'll be far easier for you than trying to shave 25% of the force out.

There are many nice units in the book, but lots of them are simply not at all balanced, and far from good choices. The author got lucky with the core of the force, but many things just don't work, or don't work as they should. We just have to live with it, and accept that some of the cool units are rubbish.

[sakura_ninja]

The Perry models are nice, and I was thinking of using hussars, my worry is scale since Perry is 28mm and gw is random.

And cool units being rubbish I don't mind, and I've always been of the mindset that nothing is rubbish by default, just not as good or poorly used.

Afterall when you think about it if 200 guard players who all play melta-chimera-vet spam say "that unit is rubbish", if you asked each honestly if they have ever used it I bet almost everyone would say no haha.

I'll go through the list again in the morning.