New to Mk II

[Battleworthy Arts]

So what are the big changes?

Are warjacks desirable again?

[Jerrus]

I didn't play mk 1, so this is mostly what I've heard.

The points system has been redone, most things cost a tenth of what they cost before. Warcasters are free and give extra points to spend on warjacks.

Models can use focus to shake knock down and stationary effects during the control phase.

And a general toning down of "I win buttons"

Sent from my E10i using Tapatalk 2

[Falkman]

Didn't play Mk I either, but from what I've heard warjacks received an across-the-board buff to MAT and RAT. The inclusion of warjack points for every casters also means that you can always take at least one jack for free or very cheap.

[Deadnight]

So what are the big changes?

Are warjacks desirable again?

jacks are a lot better than they were in mk1 (where they were terrible) but that doenst mean its jackmachine. Warjacks have a role to play, but for most armies you're gonna see 1-3 jacks moreso than 0-1 jacks.

Lots of changes. jacks get more POW, better MAT and RAT, they get cheaper (old juggy cost 130 odd points, he costs 7 in the new system). all told, big improvements. points system is reworked. 35 or 50pts are your new main points levels, as opposed to 500, or 1000. general rebalancing of points and units abilities. a lot of the auto-win buttons from mk1 (eg eVlad and the flying drakhun, or the legion flying circus) got toned down. a lot of poor things got bumped up. overall, the balance between things is pretty damned good.

and probably more stuff. get the rulebook and have a read through

[paddyalexander]

Models can spend focus to shake off knocked down and stationary, units formation is measured from the unit leaders base similar to Warjacks in a control zone & unit leaders for the most part have the same stat line as the grunts now. When a non-officer unit leader is killed you pick a grunt to promote.

Otherwise there was a lot of tidying of the terminology used and of the special rules and spells. For example instead of 3 or 4 different teleportation spell in mark 1 there is now only 1.

Warjacks are a lot better in this edition and Warcasters bring extra points to your army list that can only be spent on Warjacks in its' battlegroup. One of the biggest changes to Hordes was the introduction of battlegroups, where Warbeasts can now only be forced by a specific Warlock. In multi-lock games in mark 1 beasts were not part of a battlegroup and so could be forced by any Warlock that it was in control range of.

[Battleworthy Arts]

I like what I am hearing. Looks like its time to spend some money.

[khaosBlizzard]

what army are you gonna play?

[Battleworthy Arts]

Khador most likely.

[khaosBlizzard]

Nice! thats what i play welcome to the motherland!

[Gop]

I've *generally* found that in MKII there is a lot more infantry used. Many lists now contain only 1 jack, some have none especially Cryx.

[toxic_wisdom]

''...some have none especially Cryx...''

Quite surprised by that - not sure what the meta is like in your area but Cryx in particular almost certainly always have at least one Warjack, usually an Arc Node with the free points from its controlling Warcaster.

[Ivellis]

I've *generally* found that in MKII there is a lot more infantry used. Many lists now contain only 1 jack, some have none especially Cryx.

Firstly, it is colossally idiotic to take no 'jacks as you get free points towards them, so you're actually playing at a disadvantage not taking any, so if true, those Cryx players are not the brightest bunch. Secondly, having no 'jacks in MKI was the standard not the exception. Nowadays everyone takes at least one and I see two or three WAAAAY more often than in MKI. Are you sure you remember how ridiculous infantry was compared to warjacks in MKI?

[Deadnight]

I've *generally* found that in MKII there is a lot more infantry used. Many lists now contain only 1 jack, some have none especially Cryx.

nope. mk1 was "infantrymachine" for a reason: jacks were beyond terrible. mostly, you never saw jacks. Now, especially in tournaments with WJ points, you *must* spend them, which means you gotta take at least 1 jack. Heck, jamie P took the UK masters with khador lists comprising 2, 2, and 1 jack respectively. Normally, depending on caster, i'll run 1-3 at 35 tp 50pts. IMO, the issue with jacks/infantry is from a smallminority of the player base who insist that the game is, and should only be about warjacks. Which is foolish, if you ask me.

In terms of what they do, jacks are about options, and concentrated force. they're vital. infantry cant do everything.

[HRM]

A lot of Khador players will tell you to limit your 'jack selection to A) Beast-09, B) Behemoth, C) a Spriggan. MAYBE a Kodiak. I don't necessarily subscribe to this theory myself, but Khadoran infantry IS pretty gosh-darned good.

Also, be warned - the PP boards are HEAVILY skewed towards hyper-competitive, curbstomp-your-opponent-ASAP playstyles. Which is cool, but you should know that before asking them what they think of Kossite Woodsmen over there.

[Borgnine]

A lot of Khador players will tell you to limit your 'jack selection to A) Beast-09, B) Behemoth, C) a Spriggan. MAYBE a Kodiak. I don't necessarily subscribe to this theory myself, but Khadoran infantry IS pretty gosh-darned good.

Also, be warned - the PP boards are HEAVILY skewed towards hyper-competitive, curbstomp-your-opponent-ASAP playstyles. Which is cool, but you should know that before asking them what they think of Kossite Woodsmen over there.

I really like running a jugger every single game. It's just so efficient for it's cost. I'll normally throw in a Kodiak as well as I find it's chain attack and two open fists really handy. The kodiak is also fantastic at dealing with high DEF infantry due to it's vent steam ability.

I personally don't find Beast-09 worth four more points than a standard juggernaut, but maybe that's just me.

[Deadnight]

A lot of Khador players will tell you to limit your 'jack selection to A) Beast-09, B) Behemoth, C) a Spriggan. MAYBE a Kodiak. I don't necessarily subscribe to this theory myself, but Khadoran infantry IS pretty gosh-darned good.

Also, be warned - the PP boards are HEAVILY skewed towards hyper-competitive, curbstomp-your-opponent-ASAP playstyles. Which is cool, but you should know that before asking them what they think of Kossite Woodsmen over there.

there is more to khador than that though to be fair, i get great mileage out of my stompy juggernauts.

I have my issues with the PP boards. they're OK for the most parts, but the collossal (pun intended) and now gargauntuan levels of whining about collossals and gargantuans is extremely annoying. its all DOOOOMMM! over there, because too many people are too afraid of change, and of PP mixing things up. Khador boards have gotten a lot worse too. if you believe them, you might as well not bother as khador is apparently incredibly uncompetitive, and is gimped more and more with every new release. one wonders how khador keep placing well in the big tournament rankings if thats so... all the boards talk about is the need for (1) an iron flesh caster, (2) beast09, (3) the great bears, (4) kayazy with UA, (5) the winter guard deathstar. there is no imagination, no free thinking, no pushing things out. you have to deal with very tiring comments, from a very limited mind set from a large amount of the posters to come across the occasional nugget of wisdom. its not that they're all about a hyper competitive, curbstomp your opponent asap playstyle as much as "take x,y, and z to win", followed by "im taking x,y, and z and the other guy is still beating me. [my faction] is nerfed, [their faction, typically cry and LoE] are broken. please nerf!". *shrug* play like you gotta pair is all im gonna say.

[Deadnight]

double post! sorry!

[Havock]

there is more to khador than that though to be fair, i get great mileage out of my stompy juggernauts.

I have my issues with the PP boards. they're OK for the most parts, but the collossal (pun intended) and now gargauntuan levels of whining about collossals and gargantuans is extremely annoying. its all DOOOOMMM! over there, because too many people are too afraid of change, and of PP mixing things up. Khador boards have gotten a lot worse too. if you believe them, you might as well not bother as khador is apparently incredibly uncompetitive, and is gimped more and more with every new release. one wonders how khador keep placing well in the big tournament rankings if thats so... all the boards talk about is the need for (1) an iron flesh caster, (2) beast09, (3) the great bears, (4) kayazy with UA, (5) the winter guard deathstar. there is no imagination, no free thinking, no pushing things out. you have to deal with very tiring comments, from a very limited mind set from a large amount of the posters to come across the occasional nugget of wisdom. its not that they're all about a hyper competitive, curbstomp your opponent asap playstyle as much as "take x,y, and z to win", followed by "im taking x,y, and z and the other guy is still beating me. [my faction] is nerfed, [their faction, typically cry and LoE] are broken. please nerf!". *shrug* play like you gotta pair is all im gonna say.

Lots of people start to lose the idea that you can win this game by playing well, rather than just taking along the things that do well on paper.
Sure, Kayazy and WGI are 'optimal', but when you give them marks it would only be slightly 'higher' than, say, IFP.


And yet I won a tournament with only a minimum unit of Kayazy with UA backing up max IFP + UA. Hell that was the backbone of both my lists (eSorscha and pIrusk) and I did not really take notable shooty (Ayana & Holt, Widowmaker marksman...). Faced off against a Saeryn list twice (ie. worst possible matchup for a melee army) and won both times. After stomping on Trolls for the first two games. Earned me a qualification

The Doom & gloom really started after the SR2012 character restrictions: Only one Great Bears in your list. Only one WGDS! Noes. The lists that are ganked most are the Behemoth + WGI + Kayazy + Gorman, Eiryss and other assorted character solos. Tough luck.

[HRM]

there is more to khador than that though to be fair, i get great mileage out of my stompy juggernauts.

I have my issues with the PP boards. they're OK for the most parts, but the collossal (pun intended) and now gargauntuan levels of whining about collossals and gargantuans is extremely annoying. its all DOOOOMMM! over there, because too many people are too afraid of change, and of PP mixing things up. Khador boards have gotten a lot worse too. if you believe them, you might as well not bother as khador is apparently incredibly uncompetitive, and is gimped more and more with every new release. one wonders how khador keep placing well in the big tournament rankings if thats so... all the boards talk about is the need for (1) an iron flesh caster, (2) beast09, (3) the great bears, (4) kayazy with UA, (5) the winter guard deathstar. there is no imagination, no free thinking, no pushing things out. you have to deal with very tiring comments, from a very limited mind set from a large amount of the posters to come across the occasional nugget of wisdom. its not that they're all about a hyper competitive, curbstomp your opponent asap playstyle as much as "take x,y, and z to win", followed by "im taking x,y, and z and the other guy is still beating me. [my faction] is nerfed, [their faction, typically cry and LoE] are broken. please nerf!". *shrug* play like you gotta pair is all im gonna say.

Well said, good sir. Have you seen the whining over the Mountain King? "It only has 48 life boxes!!!" ... Uh, that's a lot.

[Falkman]

Have you seen the whining over the Mountain King? "It only has 48 life boxes!!!" ... Uh, that's a lot.

Not compared to what you pay for it.