Have the High Lords of Terra missed a trick?

[Chem-Dog]

Cadia. The epitome of the Imperium's military might, steadfastly defending against the filth that spews from the Eye of Terror for most of the Imperium's history. Every person born on it's soil will serve as a soldier in some capacity and even the civilians are well drilled. The Cadians are a tough breed, sturdy and resolute in their task, unflinching even in the face of certain death.

Which then begs the question.... With such a strong populace trained, from childhood, for war, why hasn't an Astartes Chapter been founded/stationed there permanently?

I know there's a group of (10?) Chapters specifically dotted around the extremes of the EoT but why isn't Cadia itself host to a Chapter?

[El_Machinae]

My impression is that Chapter planets tend to be a type of tribute planet to the Chapter. Cadia cannot 'afford' to 'owe' a Chapter anything, and are actually constantly getting supplies sent in from other planets.

[Cthell]

Other possible reasons include:

• Proximity to Eye of Terror leading to concerns about warp taint; I recall a quote from an inquisitor saying Cadia breeds recidivists like a pond breeds scum.

• Demographics - Most Cadians make it to adulthood. Most Space Marine chapters like to recruit from "darwinian" (for want of a better term) societies, where there is a high childhood mortality rate, either due to warfare (of one description or another) or an extremely tough environment; this means that only the toughest survive, and the Marines take their pick of the very toughest of these elites. Cadians, on the other hand, are focussed on making sure that as many children grow up to meet the tough standards of the Cadian regiments; there is much less dog-eat-dog competition between whiteshields, they are all trying to be the best, but not by sabotaging their companions

[TheSaylesMan]

I remember back in the days of advertising the old Eye of Chaos global campaign, they touted a new Space Marine Chapter being founded from the Cadians as a reward for the forces of the Imperium if they did well enough. I imagine that the in-universe reason for this was that the forces of Chaos getting routed meant that they wouldn't have to worry about being at peak defensive capacity so they could actually spare the resources to found a Chapter.

Think about it this way. The process by which they determine if a a boy is capable of becoming an Astartes is rigorous. The vast majority of them do no succeed. A good fraction of those applicants are killed or crippled by the trials, not to mention any psychological trauma that those children might be afflicted with. Then, only a fraction of the applicants that pass the trials are genetically compatible with the gene-seed. The Chapter Apothecarium then weeds out any applicants with any kind of genetic conditions that have yet to manifest. Then, the actual implantation process can claim the lives of the would-be Astartes. So, pass or fail, Cadia would be losing a percentage of its next-generation of soldiers to death and infirmity. Not a very attractive option for a planet that sees siege by the forces within the Eye of Terror on a semi-regular basis. Then you factor in how Astartes, while superhuman, are not at their best in defensive battles. Its stated many times that the Astartes shine in offensive, surgical strikes against the enemy. The only way that this hypothetical chapter could do that would be to lead strike into the Eye of Terror itself. The idea of that is suicide. On top of all of that, Astartes Chapters are vested with their own authority. Cadia wouldn't find it very appealing to sacrifice a good number of their young, would-be fighting men to an organization that they have no control over. This Chapter may decide it has completely different objectives that to defend Cadia and zip off somewhere else in the galaxy.

I think that its a lot more sound for Chapters to be founded from places that aren't active war zones and then be shipped to the front-lines of the galactic theater.

[Stonerhino]

The IoM would not give an important world like Cadia to a SM Chapter.

Also think about it this way:

Every person born on Cadia works for the military in some way. Losing many of these poeple representing the "Cream of the crop" would weaken Cadia's military. So to keep the Cadia military as strong as possible it's better for their best of the best to remain part of their own military. You can get SMs from all over to come and fight on Cadia without weakening Cadia's own forces.

[Grimbad]

They can't let Cadia become tithe grade Adeptus Non.

[Cthell]

They can't let Cadia become tithe grade Adeptus Non.

Cadia is already tithe Grade Adeptus Non (Codex Eye of Terror)

[DietDolphin]

I remember someone asking the exact same question about why no Chapters recruit from Catachan. Space marines like to recruit from deathworlds so why not recruit from the most deathy deathworld of them all?

The answers simply just because. The Imperial Guard need something to seem cool and marines already get enough attention. Imagine if instead the guard codex said "Catachan is the most dangerous Deathworld not used for recruitment by marines, its not quite that dangerous..." or "Cadia is pretty hardcore, but secretly Cadia wishes it was an Ultamarine recruiting planet...". In other words shhhhh! before GW realise this and take away the few badass things Guard have away!

Though if you're looking for a fluffy reasoning why Cadia isn't recruited from, in The First Heretic the Word Bearers are the first of anyone from the imperium to land on Cadia and not that the native Cadian's iris's have "mutated" to purple as a reaction to the warp filled sky. While the Word Bearers didn't think much of it the Custodians with them were ready to kill everyone there and then. I imagine the Custodians view is a similar line of though to why marine chapters don't recruit from there, possible taint.

...and as for why Catachans aren't recruited? i like to think it's because their biceps are too big to fit in power armour.

[All Cing Eye]

One thing that's always bugged me is that there seems to be an awful lot of Cadian regiments at large in the 40k universe, in almost every major conflict Cadian regiments seems to be present for 2 resons:

1. For such a key world you would think Cadian regiments would be used to garrison Cadia and surrounding systems.

2. For a world that is attacked pretty regularly there seems to be a pretty high population/reproductive rate to sustain all these regiments, enough that they can spare some to go to warzones all over the galaxy

[TheDoctor]

One thing that's always bugged me is that there seems to be an awful lot of Cadian regiments at large in the 40k universe, in almost every major conflict Cadian regiments seems to be present for 2 resons:

1. For such a key world you would think Cadian regiments would be used to garrison Cadia and surrounding systems.

2. For a world that is attacked pretty regularly there seems to be a pretty high population/reproductive rate to sustain all these regiments, enough that they can spare some to go to warzones all over the galaxy

Well, if we think of it in modern day terms.
-We have 6 billion people (give or take)
--Only a small fraction (less than 1%, at least in the United States) are in the military at all.
--Cadia's ENTIRE population is in the military. While we have to worry about food and industrial production, consumer goods, technological development, etc.; on Cadia, these are either supplied from neighboring worlds or are a secondary occupation for its citizens.
---And since this is 40k, we can safely assume that Cadia's total population is much greater than 6 billion. Also, a significant portion of the 6 billion people are the elderly and infirm, and Cadians rarely live to that age.
---Theoretically, humans can start having babies when they hit puberty. Manpower is cheap in 40k. With very little of the population too old to have babies, do the math.

[Askil the Undecided]

In short, Cadia isn't an Astartes homeworld because an extra thousand Astartes wouldn't make up for losing the towering wall of meat that Cadia provides for the IG grinder.

[TheDungen]

Also spade marines arent part of the normal command structure, while they do owe their alliegence to the imperium they kinda decide how they go abou that as they see fit. If the High lords cna have an IG recruit world instead of a sm recruit world they'll take that chance any day, cause they can controll the IG. Also a SM chapter is what like 1000 marines? an ig recruit world can give you 10 or a hundred times that, and while SM are good their not the frontline soldiers of the imperium.

When a space marine chapter discover a suitable recruiting world they simply claim it if no one has before them, the high lords dont want to get into an argument with the SM so they generally let them keep it, there are many other worlds out there.

The thing is while each spacemarine is worth 10 man (accoriding to the old give me hundred spacemarines or failign that give me thousand other men saying) the imperium cant afford to keep 1/10 of the number of imperial guard they have as space marines, not even if they were to disband the guard. the production costs of a fully geared spacemarine is just to high.

[Idaan]

If we go by the "A Marine equals 10 other soldiers" quote (which I don't agree with, but let's roll with it), and account for the fact that 1 in 1000 aspirants makes it to full Marine status, with many of the failing ones dead, crippled or servitorised, it becomes apparent that it is 100x less efficient to recruit enough Cadians to form a Chapter than it would be to just raise a few new regiments out of them.

[Lupe]

An Astartes chapter simply wouldn't work on Cadia, because the whole purpose of the world is to deliver large numbers of able bodied men and women to a battle-ready status, with as little downtime as possible. Key points in italics. Aside from one of these points, the idea of an Astartes chapter would disrupt the entire planet's focus on the other three points.

And let's face it, if Cadia were to become a chapter world, this would end up by removing far more men (and women!!!!) from the Imperial Guard's recruitment pool than it's worth
.
The numbers of recruits required to produce a single Marine are just the tip of the iceberg. You've got to crew a whole fortress monastery with Chapter serfs that require specialized training (artificiers, menials, apothecarion assistants for instance). Then there's the whole matter of the Chapter fleet (2-3 battle barges, 6+ strike cruisers, plus frigates, escorts) that all swallow manpower by the thousands - a battle barge alone could set the Imperial Guard recruitment effort back by a handful of regiments. And even that's not the worst problem a Chapter's autonomy entails. The supply chains alone are probably a logistical nightmare. A Chapter would also need to establish separate production and maintenance facilities for their specialized vehicles. These also require a lot of mostly mortal labor, both specialized and unskilled (down to the level of just overseeing the 'shopping list' and hauling carts), and they have to divert that from Cadia's recruitment pool as well. And for what? In order to produce a Predator it probably takes as many people as to crew a whole Leman Russ regiment, with tanks brought off-world from a nearby forge-world.

All in all, it's far more efficient to have Cadia specialized in producing elite infantry at a fast rate and have the Munitorum's galactic resources provide for all other support needs (space transport, materials, logistics) than it is to establish and maintain a Chapter from the resources of a single world.

Quick personal estimation, I'd say that Cadia would be losing about a couple hundred regiments worth of men in exchange for a Space marine Chapter. Not exactly a good trade-off here...

[Corvussanctus]

And i think there is a reason why space marines recruit from feral/death-world so often: These planets are low-tech, low-population communities, rarely able to provide well equiped regiments/refined products in sufficient numbers. But when you settle a space marine chapter there they are able to provide something for the good of the imperium by means of few, but tough recruits who become space marines.

[Col. Tartleton]

One thing that's always bugged me is that there seems to be an awful lot of Cadian regiments at large in the 40k universe, in almost every major conflict Cadian regiments seems to be present for 2 resons:

1. For such a key world you would think Cadian regiments would be used to garrison Cadia and surrounding systems.

2. For a world that is attacked pretty regularly there seems to be a pretty high population/reproductive rate to sustain all these regiments, enough that they can spare some to go to warzones all over the galaxy

I'm of the opinion that Cadian Regiments away from Cadia are frequently Auxiliary Regiments. Unit gets sent away, serves a few tours, earn the right of conquest, and from then on all recruits from said planet are raised, trained, and outfitted in the Cadian style and the original unit would maintain it's name and status. Thus creating a force multiplier. The Blue Blooded Cadians are mostly off Cadia. The Imperium might use the odd regiment as a force multiplier to shore up forces elsewhere. One of the major problems in the fluff is chaos cults arising on Cadia. It's actually probably a good idea to store crack soldiers in places they're less likely to need a good old fashioned bolt to the noggin. If that means sending 90% of them off Cadia, that's the plan.

According to the galaxy map showing Guard installations, key planets whose guard we've heard of like Tallarn draft well over 50 million men a year into the guard. That's like borrowing half the soldiers used in the entirely of WW2 every year. It's a lot of manpower. They would need pretty large populations and constant war footing to make that possible.

[MyNameDidntFit]

Because Creed.

[Lupe]

According to the galaxy map showing Guard installations, key planets whose guard we've heard of like Tallarn draft well over 50 million men a year into the guard. That's like borrowing half the soldiers used in the entirely of WW2 every year. It's a lot of manpower. They would need pretty large populations and constant war footing to make that possible.

And Tallarn is a wasteland completely unsuitable for human life above the surface. Valhalla is a hellish iceworld, also completely unsuitable for life outside its cavern cities. Imagine what figures Cadia must be dishing out (even at a recruitment rate similar to Tallarn, maybe a 25% for instance), considering that its environment is far more friendly towards human settlement. Now multiply that by four times to get to the 100% mark, and listen to the sound of masses of dropping jaws.

[Bannik]

Other possible reasons include:

• Proximity to Eye of Terror leading to concerns about warp taint; I recall a quote from an inquisitor saying Cadia breeds recidivists like a pond breeds scum.

• Demographics - Most Cadians make it to adulthood. Most Space Marine chapters like to recruit from "darwinian" (for want of a better term) societies, where there is a high childhood mortality rate, either due to warfare (of one description or another) or an extremely tough environment; this means that only the toughest survive, and the Marines take their pick of the very toughest of these elites. Cadians, on the other hand, are focussed on making sure that as many children grow up to meet the tough standards of the Cadian regiments; there is much less dog-eat-dog competition between whiteshields, they are all trying to be the best, but not by sabotaging their companions

The warp taint bit I can agree with...not the second one cause all you need to do is take the young vet cadians who survived the first few fights...they are usually tough as nail plus I do believe a few chapters dont even have planets (fleets or starbase of some kind) and some even live on tough little resource worlds and still borrow from other imperium worlds...

[Lupe]

The warp taint bit I can agree with...not the second one cause all you need to do is take the young vet cadians who survived the first few fights...they are usually tough as nail plus I do believe a few chapters dont even have planets (fleets or starbase of some kind) and some even live on tough little resource worlds and still borrow from other imperium worlds...

Oh, a nearby chapter could of course snatch a few promising cadets every now and then to supplement their recruitment pool, that's for sure. The viability of actually establishing a Chapter - with all the mess *that* involves - is a whole thing altogether.