How would you re-work the EOG?

[Doommasters]

I have been working on some ideas for the Eye of the Gods (EOG) design over the weekend, once it is completed I will post it up here.

There are three tables;

1) Warshrines, exalted heroes, and Chosen/Chosen Knights if the ever exist - Looks at balancing the options and removing the shenanigans (2D6 options)

2) EOG for the Chaos Lord - Focuses on tactical benefits provided to sourrounding troops through the chaos lord challenening and killing characters and monsters (D6 options-Re-Roll with a chaos gift)

I am debating leaving Sorc's out as they allready provide such utilty and don't need EOG.

Just thought I would collect some thoughts from the community as I personally think the EOG idea is great, but it has more potential than GW may realise.

Thanks

[Zark the Damned]

Some easy fixes for EOTG:

1: The 'reroll if you already have this' on Fear/Terror and other results does not include items which grant the ability, they have to actually have the ability.

2: The Talisman which gives +/-1 to the result can't be used to select an invalid option which would be re-rolled.

3: If you reroll to another invalid option, you can't reroll again. Too bad, the gods are fickle (i.e. bring it in line with the general 'can't reroll a reroll' rule)

I don't think you need multiple tables though, the current one is fine, just horribly abusable because of the ease of manipulating it into the ideal result.

[Flash Felix]

Seperate the 12 result into two parts. Stubborn is great and a unit wide 4+ Ward is awesome. Together they're pure cheese, and Tzeentch's +1 stackable Ward just adds some broken glass to the mix your opponent has to swallow.

So the 12 result could give you a Ward Save, and even then probably only a 5+ at best. The 11 result could give Stubborn.

Or, why not add another dice and get a much wider range of results, from 3-18. Throw some additional bad ones in there, the Chaos Gods are meant to be fickle after all. Fickle isn't a 1/36 chance of a bad result and a 6/36 chance of no result......

[Soundwave]

I play tzeentch warriors but yes the eye of the gods is being poked, prodded and manipulated by the lesser beings under its gaze.The eye is closed but wait no its not watch me pry it open with my five point trinket.Cap all ward saves at four plus and rid of the trinket!The gods are the gods not the worshipers.Yeah second thoughts remove the ward save maybe replace with fleshy abundance 5 plus regen.A four plus ward save on each model is a 45pnt item upgrade for characters its bonkers.(good one Phil)Not to worry there time for balance is at hand.

[Haravikk]

1: The 'reroll if you already have this' on Fear/Terror and other results does not include items which grant the ability, they have to actually have the ability.
2: The Talisman which gives +/-1 to the result can't be used to select an invalid option which would be re-rolled.
3: If you reroll to another invalid option, you can't reroll again. Too bad, the gods are fickle (i.e. bring it in line with the general 'can't reroll a reroll' rule)

I agree with these; all things that should have been in an FAQ.

I think that the Ward Save should also be either removed, or apply a different value for characters than for Chosen, as even a 4+ Ward Save is pretty powerful, definitely more so than 3 points per model.
If it were 4+ for characters and Regenerate(5+) for units it might be of a better balance?

[theunwantedbeing]

The obvious solution would be to apply it only to characters(not mounts) as well as removing the option to re-roll results you already have.
Then you make sure that the trinket only works on rolls gained by winning challenges or killing large targets.
Finally, the Warshrine only grants a single effect for a turn.

Now there's no more cheese to be gained from it all.
It's not perfect of course and still way better for units than characters but the entire thing was terribly written and no amount of small tweaking will sort it out.

[Gradek]

The idea itself is cool, but the execution was terrible. First, get rid of FoTG. Second, limit rerolls only to innate abilities of characters/units (ie not magic items). Third, drop the 4+ ward save for boxcars (maybe unbreakable instead).

[Chaoslord Faros The Dark]

The idea itself is cool, but the execution was terrible. First, get rid of FoTG. Second, limit rerolls only to innate abilities of characters/units (ie not magic items). Third, drop the 4+ ward save for boxcars (maybe unbreakable instead).

Unbreakable is kinda poop for chaos. Also there is no way for chaos characters or units except knights to get those ability. Plus i can bet you no one would use chosen or war shrines if you could not roll on the eye of the gods and if im honest a chosen unit should be a nigh unstoppable unit as they should be a unit of mini exalted heroes.

[The Low King]

Why is unbreakable bad?

[snyggejygge]

Cause they rarely lose combat to start with?

[pointyteeth]

I think its ok the way it is. It just needs some small changes to make it less abusable, and more worthwhile for everything (my trolls get a 6+ armour save? Yay!). Perhaps change the warshrine Giver of Glory so that it removes 2 and 7 from the EOG chart.

*Edit - I've just read the rules in Tamurkan for chaos paragons and I think that would be an awesome way to go. Fluffwise, its not that the gods are favouring an individual, they are favoring the army as a whole (for the most part)

[The Low King]

Cause they rarely lose combat to start with?

I beat them in combat all the time

[snottlebocket]

The fourth edition chaos system has been my favorite so far.

There was a big stack of chaos gift cards describing various events and mutations. Every turn you got two chaos gift cards and certain feats during the battle would earn more.

Most of the gifts were simple temporary stat ajustments along the lines of +1 strength or +1 attack. You could play them whenever you liked and they represented a mutant within a unit making itself known. You could also play them on your characters but that would require a spawn test to see if the new mutation didn't push them over the edge into spawn dom.

Some of the gifts had to be played as soon as they were drawn. Some cards for instance forced you to whisk away one of your characters because he was called to fight on behalf of his god in the realm of chaos. Randomly returning at a later point.

The system felt the most fluff accurate out of all the things they've tried over the years. It was fun playing god with your army, handing out mutations and risking turning characters into spawn.

[OgreDan]

Id like there to be a simpler table which buffs the buff you get for having a particular mark.

Models with mark of nurgle get poisoned attacks,
Models with mark of slaanesh get ASF,
Models with mark of Khorne get Killing Blow,
Models with mark of Tzeentch get something magic like (cant think of anything now)

Ideally as the battle rages on models get stronger and stronger moving ever so slightly closer to daemonhood.

Perhaps there is a negative table for units taking severe casualties or breaking, perhaps to replace panic.

[Knifeparty]

The way eye of the gods should work I always felt would be to have a d6 system for each mark.

Roll a d6 everytime you kill a character in a challenge, destroy a unit, or monstrous creature.

Mark of Undivided:
1) The Eye is closed, nothing happens
2) +1 Strength
3) +1 Toughness
4) +1 Attack
5) +1 Armour Save
6) Stubborn

Mark of Khorne:
1) RAGE! May not restrain charges from frenzy
2) Magic Resistance 3
3) Shooting and Magic Missiles are -1 to wound
4) +1 Strength
5) Hatred
6) Killing Blow

Tzeentch:
1) Mutation! One model in the unit turns into a spawn, characters and multi-wound creatures take a wound, if they die they turn into a spawn.
2) Flaming attacks
3) Unit may now channel power dice, if already a wizard +1 to channel
4) +1 to ward save, 6+ ward save if the unit does not have one
5) Unit has Flaming Sword of Ruin permanently cast upon it, it may not be dispelled
6) Unit gains d3 re-rolls per turn.

Nurgle:
1) I'm not feeling so good...Characters must take a toughness test or take a wound, units take d3 toughness tests or take a wound.
2) poisoned attacks
3) cause terror
4) enemy models in base contact with the unit must take a toughness test or take a wound
5) +1 toughness
6) 5+ regeneration

Slaanesh:
1) I look fabulous! Unit gains stupidity
2) +1 Movement
3) Armour Piercing
4) All enemy units within 6" are -1 leadership
5) Enemy units in base contact half their weapon skill and initiative
6) Unit gains ASF

[Leogun_91]

Change the 12 result to something equal to the other results, then it's fine really.

[Lord Dan]

The way eye of the gods should work I always felt would be to have a d6 system for each mark.

Roll a d6 everytime you kill a character in a challenge, destroy a unit, or monstrous creature.

Mark of Undivided:
1) The Eye is closed, nothing happens
2) +1 Strength
3) +1 Toughness
4) +1 Attack
5) +1 Armour Save
6) Stubborn

Mark of Khorne:
1) RAGE! May not restrain charges from frenzy
2) Magic Resistance 3
3) Shooting and Magic Missiles are -1 to wound
4) +1 Strength
5) Hatred
6) Killing Blow

Tzeentch:
1) Mutation! One model in the unit turns into a spawn, characters and multi-wound creatures take a wound, if they die they turn into a spawn.
2) Flaming attacks
3) Unit may now channel power dice, if already a wizard +1 to channel
4) +1 to ward save, 6+ ward save if the unit does not have one
5) Unit has Flaming Sword of Ruin permanently cast upon it, it may not be dispelled
6) Unit gains d3 re-rolls per turn.

Nurgle:
1) I'm not feeling so good...Characters must take a toughness test or take a wound, units take d3 toughness tests or take a wound.
2) poisoned attacks
3) cause terror
4) enemy models in base contact with the unit must take a toughness test or take a wound
5) +1 toughness
6) 5+ regeneration

Slaanesh:
1) I look fabulous! Unit gains stupidity
2) +1 Movement
3) Armour Piercing
4) All enemy units within 6" are -1 leadership
5) Enemy units in base contact half their weapon skill and initiative
6) Unit gains ASF

Love it. Simple and fits the background. Actually it reminds me a bit of the tables from the old 6th edition Path to Glory rules.

[Knifeparty]

Love it. Simple and fits the background. Actually it reminds me a bit of the tables from the old 6th edition Path to Glory rules.

Thank you kind sir, I occasionally write homegrown codex's and army books.

[Maltor]

If the chances of a bad result are 1/6 instead of 1/36, I would rather not have EOG at all. Hey look I just killed a fodder unit, now my unit is bunked. I have no issue with nothing happening on a 1, just not bad things happening. You could also make it 2/6 or 3/6 nothing happens and be fine if the results were worth it.

[Haravikk]

The way eye of the gods should work I always felt would be to have a d6 system for each mark.

I really like that proposed table! Provided Chosen and the War Shrine never inflicts negative effects (or the War Shrine at least has a reduced chance to), and there's a magic item to make it less risky for characters, then it's a great setup.

My only thought is that the Mutation! result for Tzeentch seems like more of an advantage than any of the other negatives; it's dead characterful, but perhaps it should be more of a multi-wound effect, and if a model is killed then the spawn replacing it has the same number of Wounds that were lost. e.g - if two models are killed you get a spawn with two Wounds.