C'tan and wraith combo

[Ceason]

Hello again everyone. A Necron question. I bogged down a Marine HQ and command squad with a squad of wraiths and joined the combat with a C'tan. I had the wraiths equipped with whip coils and used Time's arrow against his commander. The wraith and the Ctan were in base contact with that commander and he argued it was against his base initiative and not the 1 that the whip coils would make him. It doesn't say unmodified initiative. It also makes mention in the FAQ if you reduce a target's initiative to 1 and he is equipped with something speeds him up it then adds from there. I.E. the grey knight's halberd equipped knight would be at 3 against said wraith. Did I get it wrong or did I find a nasty combo?

[Chrysis]

You got it right, models in base contact with a Wraith with whip coils count there initiative as 1 "regardless of their actual initiative value."
Nothing requires characteristic tests to be against unmodified initiative so they are against current. The Commander has to take an initiative test at I1 or die with no saves. Good luck to him.

[ted1138]

I was wondering, can you attach a C'Tan shard to a unit of Wraiths? That would make it easier to get it, plus one Wraith, in base contact with the model you want to take out this way...

[copper.talos]

No you can't. The combo is valid though.

[TheGreatDalmuti]

The brb does indeed mention that certain modifiers may apply, so the combo is valid.

[Sami]

This is permitted due to the very lax wording of Whip Coils which apply at all times while the model is in B2B contact with the Wraith. Note this doesn't affect sweeping advances, as the BRB has an extra clause to always use the value on the profile.

[Ceason]

It's pretty dirty. Kinda expensive too.

[ted1138]

No you can't. The combo is valid though.

Why not? The C'Tan Shard is an independent character.

[Weirdboy]

I don't want to reduce my wraith's movement to 6" though.

[Mozzamanx]

The C'Tan is a 'character', meaning it is vulnerable to various things like the Deathleaper or rules related to that sort of thing. Maybe the Emperors Champion and his challenge rule?
However it is NOT 'independant'. Being a Character is not the same thing as an Independant Character.

[Kurisu313]

Why not? The C'Tan Shard is an independent character.

No its not. Its a character, not an independant character. Like the difference between Lords and Overlords.

[ted1138]

So how come it's not an independent character? It says (character) next to it, same as all the other characters in the codex. Are they not independent characters?

[Nurgling Chieftain]

Depends. Do they say "Independent Character" in their special rules or not? Overlord does. Lord doesn't.

[ted1138]

But the BRB(pg47) says there are two types of character; Independant and Upgrade. The C'Tan is not an upgrade character, so must be an independent one...

[Tethylis]

The C'tan is neither one nor the other. I know the BRB says that there are independents or upgrade types but the C'tan really does fall between the cracks. I am pretty sure this is something that will make more sense once 6th ed come out as its not the first time we have seen models with the character type but without the independent rule or that have been upgraded, BA's Mephiston and GK's Mordrak are just two that spring to mind.

[madden]

Apart from that the c'tan is a monstrous creature and they can't join units. But I'd say the combo works but getting allthe pieces in place at the same time is going to be tricky at best and it will cost a lot of points, good if it works but you can't relie on it.

[Chrysis]

Apart from that the c'tan is a monstrous creature and they can't join units. But I'd say the combo works but getting allthe pieces in place at the same time is going to be tricky at best and it will cost a lot of points, good if it works but you can't relie on it.

Not at all true. Monstrous Creature ICs can join units fine. It can't join the wraiths solely because it isn't an Independent Character, that's all.

[Tarian]

Combos like this are why I'm glad I play Guard for the super cheap characters...

[ehlijen]

The C'tan is neither one nor the other. I know the BRB says that there are independents or upgrade types but the C'tan really does fall between the cracks.

Actually he is an upgrade character. It just happens to be a compulsive upgrade (like veteran sergeants in almost all imperial units these days, which are also never upgraded from anything) in a single model unit. It's a bit wierd, but in no way disqualifies it from being an upgrade character.

In any case, the independent character status must be explicitly granted, and it is not here.