Dark Eldar qualifying as a faction.

[Spider-pope]

Do they sell models?

If yes, big enough to be a faction.


The background of the Dark Eldar is somewhat amusing. They didn't exist, at all, in any form, in the fluff prior to the release of their 3rd Edition codex. It's easy for the Tau to *poof* into the universe because the fluff always said there were small xenos empires still around. The Dark Eldar, came about solely because people would show up with "Chaos Eldar" at tournaments (running the standard Eldar list, just with mutation conversions and fancy paintjobs). Games Workshop invented the Eldar as an attempt to grasp at the demographic asking why there were Dark Elves, but not Dark Eldar. It was kinda sad that they went for the extremely stupid "S&M Fetishists In Spaaaaaace" angle, and even worse that they botched the army so badly that it was horridly underpowered and the models were ugly so nobody played them.

Dark Eldar may not have existed by that name prior to 3rd ed. but the concept behind them certainly did. There have always been Eldar pirates and slavers in the fluff so it was by no means a completely new faction. Heck the concept of evil Eldar slave takers predates the Craftworlds.

And a fair few people did play them, despite some of their more "questionable" models. If no one had bought them, they'd have been left to rot or squated. The biggest mistake they made with the 3rd edition Dark Eldar was releasing them with a pamphlet that contained bugger all information about who they were. It's no wonder some dismissed them as bondage elves.

[LordLucan]

although they still seem to be hamstrung by internal strife and disunity to compensate for the increased scope (the same way the Orks, Necrons, and Imperium are hampered by disunity and internal strife. Nowadays it seems like only the Tyranids and the tau have any sort of unity or cohesion, and only the 'nids that seem to be in a position to do something significant about it...)

Tau have the farsight enclaves representign a bit of disunity also.

[Veteran Sergeant]

Dark Eldar may not have existed by that name prior to 3rd ed. but the concept behind them certainly did. There have always been Eldar pirates and slavers in the fluff so it was by no means a completely new faction. Heck the concept of evil Eldar slave takers predates the Craftworlds.

And a fair few people did play them, despite some of their more "questionable" models. If no one had bought them, they'd have been left to rot or squated. The biggest mistake they made with the 3rd edition Dark Eldar was releasing them with a pamphlet that contained bugger all information about who they were. It's no wonder some dismissed them as bondage elves.

Eldar Corsairs had absolutely nothing to do with Dark Eldar. They were freelancers and mercenaries just like the human equivalents of the same. Chaos Cultists were a distinct entity. Pirates, corsairs, slavers, etc, were another. Just because some Eldar were 'evil" doesn't make them Dark Eldar just like being evil doesn't make you a Chaos Cultist. This is especially evidenced by the fact that Eldar Corsairs still exist in the fluff as a specifically non Dark Eldar faction (even though the fluff now allows for Dark Eldar pirates too).

And I think you took the comment "nobody" a bit too literally. Sheesh. It's like you have to spell stuff out for some people, lol.

[ManOfRust]

I picked up 40k in 3rd edition and started a Dark Eldar army from the boxed game set, I really enjoyed playing them and the mystery and evil was a fun balance to the shiny space marines and the obviously-psycho chaos that dominated at the time. Things have gotten quite a bit more shades of grey since then but Dark Eldar still hold their unique appeal.

I admit that I didn't really pick up on the distinction of Corsairs (they weren't really mentioned in the Big Black Book) until Battlefleet Gothic came out. Then it seemed to click into place. Some Corsairs are getting out of the Dark City until the heat dies down, others are jumping their craftworlds to live a little. Many, I'm sure, stay Corsairs till they die. Being part of a Kabal is like being a made-man, a mobster wise-guy. Living on a Craftworld is like being in school your entire life. Exodites are very background noise these days but seem to try to keep as low a profile as possible. Corsairs leave all the high-pressure lifestyles behind and live the life they choose, in my mind they're probably as close to being the Ancient Eldar as it is possible in the 41st millenium, certainly closer than any other eldar faction.

But Corsairs wouldn't fight anyone-anywhere, they'd fight where they want and have very little fluff-motivation to fight a fair or equal battle. Exodites would probably prefer not to fight at all. Both DE and CE can have any number of reasons to fight any kind of foe as they both operate on arbitrary senses of value that do not preclude using military force as an expendable resource for specific gain. This is why they are both Codex factions and the others are not.



Oh yeah, and what VeteranSergeant said about selling models.

[The Red Pilgrim]

Maybe they'll hunt down every red-head on the planet as some sort of sick hunting game.

Highly unlikely. You see, Dark Eldar want prey that possess souls.

[mob16151]

Dark Eldar - joy of joys - really have no set motive when they show up. Maybe they'll help you fight an enemy because it amuses them. Maybe they'll capture half your population as slaves. Maybe they'll hunt down every red-head on the planet as some sort of sick hunting game. Heck, I'd argue that you don't prepare for a Dark Eldar raid - you just pray it never happens, because there's not a good way to deal with it.

Or all of this at once

[anyone4tea?]

This whole discussion just makes me want to beg GW for an exodite codex. No faction is too small to warrant a codex, but some factions are certainly too important not to have one!

The question of numbers and realism is a real one for any fluff concerned gamers, It is kind of silly seeing so many space marine armies when the sight should be so rare in reality. The only answer is for GW to increase the cost of SM's and use the money to subsidise ork and imperial guard models, oh my, imagine the fecal storm if that happened... hehe Brilliant.

[nedius]

You're kind of thinking about this the wrong way.

It's not the size of a faction that makes them codex worthy. If that were the case, Orks and IG would probably be the only two codexes.

It's more their level of interest / importance to the story line.

40k is a very storied game or universe. Most stories focus not on the average soldier having an average day, but on the hero, the unique and the unusal. As such, a faction's inclusion in 40k is based not on their numbers or power individually, but on their 'narrative potential' (or the amount of Narrativium in their bloodstream - for the discworld/star wars fans out there!).

So, SM chapters get included as, despite their small size, a massive planet-wide battle's turning point may be a single decisive action from said chapter. The rest of the war - the mopping up and so on, is carried out by the PDF, and as such is not really that interesting on a glactic scale. So no Codex PDF.

Eldar, for all their dwindling numbers, are an important part of the galactic history, and soaked in narrative potential - a dying race, manipulative and desperate.

The Tau, the new race, accelerating into a galactic empire at speeds never before seen, again, a lot of narrative potential there.

Oddly, looking at it that way, then you start to question orks and IG. Ok, there is some narrative potential of the basic human against the horrors of the galaxy, I can see that. But then, orks have less in the way of narrative potential than just being 'stock bady guys'. Who, in their own orky way, are probably the closest thing to good guys in the galaxy... Which, I guess, is enough narrative potential on it;s own.

[Hellebore]

You're kind of thinking about this the wrong way.

It's not the size of a faction that makes them codex worthy. If that were the case, Orks and IG would probably be the only two codexes.

It's more their level of interest / importance to the story line.

40k is a very storied game or universe. Most stories focus not on the average soldier having an average day, but on the hero, the unique and the unusal. As such, a faction's inclusion in 40k is based not on their numbers or power individually, but on their 'narrative potential' (or the amount of Narrativium in their bloodstream - for the discworld/star wars fans out there!).

So, SM chapters get included as, despite their small size, a massive planet-wide battle's turning point may be a single decisive action from said chapter. The rest of the war - the mopping up and so on, is carried out by the PDF, and as such is not really that interesting on a glactic scale. So no Codex PDF.

Eldar, for all their dwindling numbers, are an important part of the galactic history, and soaked in narrative potential - a dying race, manipulative and desperate.

The Tau, the new race, accelerating into a galactic empire at speeds never before seen, again, a lot of narrative potential there.

Oddly, looking at it that way, then you start to question orks and IG. Ok, there is some narrative potential of the basic human against the horrors of the galaxy, I can see that. But then, orks have less in the way of narrative potential than just being 'stock bady guys'. Who, in their own orky way, are probably the closest thing to good guys in the galaxy... Which, I guess, is enough narrative potential on it;s own.

This might have been true a decade ago, or even 6 years, but selling toys and coming up with flimsy reasons to justify 6 marine codices are the main reason now. It is easier and cheaper to make a new marine force than an alien one. Space marines are to use a transformers fan phrase 'redecos' of each other, just print a new codex, make up some crappy purile fluff and sell the same thing repackaged slightly. Why play another force when you can experience the same gameplay with space marines instead?

I have no confidence that any story fidelity is behind the current faction split. It's a nice retroactive justification FOR there to be that many marine codices, but I doubt very much GW cares espically given the current 'state' of background, or lackthereof.

By this argument we should really be seeing Codex Marneus Calgar, Codex Kaldor Draigo and Codex THE sanguinor, seeing as how those guys have now become far more story significant than the chapters they come from. Reading the marine codex you'd think it was a biography of Calgar given the amount of space given over to his amazing leetness. Also, I would expect the eldar avatar not to exist in the codex at all, given that it has only appeared to be killed in all its appearances for the last decade. It has no significance at all.

So while I appreciate the argument and see that it certainly has theoretical strength, the more mundane reasons for the factions we have now are fairly evidently the reasons. It would be nice to think there was some narrative integrity left at GW, but the codices speak for themselves in the distinct lack of this.

EDIT: To put it another way, GW controls how 'significant' anything is in 40k. There is no logical reason that the Blood Angels or Dark Angels are more significant to the setting than any one of the other 1000 space marine chapters out there. Marines are marines, one chapter is expected to perform as well as any other one. they are all unique in their own ways. The Grey Knights certainly have more of a presence though. In this case the arguement would fall back to the popularity angle, which in itself is predicated upon the fact that they were released early on and developed a fanbase before the more cynical aspects of business intruded on the creative process. you can see just how difficult it is to release something other than marines by how long it took the DE to get a second codex. Goodwin was championing them for almost 10 years and it was written over that time period; it still has rules in it from the 4th ed iteration despite being released in 5th.

And that's for a faction where one cabal is larger than a marine chapter. Every race in 40k except humanity is crammed into a single codex. Codex eldar is basically codex Imperium where aspect warriors are space marines and guardians are guardsmen. Codex dark eldar would be codex Chaos Humans combining daemons, marines and traitors.

Hellebore

[anyone4tea?]

Good points sir,

"Who, in their own orky way, are probably the closest thing to good guys in the galaxy..." - Nedius

I'm actually now entertaining a short story based on an Orky perspective of the galaxy. A view where the Orks are essentially the badly educated proletariat being kept down by the bourgeoisie races. Finally, THE "RED 'FINGS" FACTOR IS EXPLAINED!

[Grubnar]

There are at most one thousand Blood Angels space marines. And they have their own codex. There are almost one million space marines, about one for every planet in the Imperium. They count as a faction.

There are millions, MILLIONS of dark eldar. I think they have the numbers to count as a faction.

[de Selby]

The thing that bugs me about DE as a faction is not their numbers (as pointed out, 40k is meant to represent cool battles from the Dark Millennium, not common battles).

What bugs me is that they're practically unique in fighting virtually all battles on their own terms. They're always on the offensive and if things don't favour them they can just slope off back to Commorragh (which no-one can find). Everybody else will inevitably end up fighting the kind of pitched battle knife-edge encounters represented by a 1500 pt game due to either a sense of duty or blood-lust or both, but there's no good reason for the selfish DE to bother.

Fluff-wise there's nowhere for the other factions to go if they want to fight Dark Eldar. It annoys me, I think GW missed a trick not expanding the fluff to include 'Dark-Eldar-controlled-realspace' where they farm sentients instead of just raiding for them. It would make perfect sense if there really are a lot of DE and they're hungrier all the time.

[Mirbeau]

The thing that bugs me about DE as a faction is not their numbers (as pointed out, 40k is meant to represent cool battles from the Dark Millennium, not common battles).

What bugs me is that they're practically unique in fighting virtually all battles on their own terms. They're always on the offensive and if things don't favour them they can just slope off back to Commorragh (which no-one can find). Everybody else will inevitably end up fighting the kind of pitched battle knife-edge encounters represented by a 1500 pt game due to either a sense of duty or blood-lust or both, but there's no good reason for the selfish DE to bother.

Fluff-wise there's nowhere for the other factions to go if they want to fight Dark Eldar. It annoys me, I think GW missed a trick not expanding the fluff to include 'Dark-Eldar-controlled-realspace' where they farm sentients instead of just raiding for them. It would make perfect sense if there really are a lot of DE and they're hungrier all the time.

Actually, a battle report in WD recently pretty much used your farm idea - with the Eldar attacking a Dark Eldar flesh farm thing. And there have been assaults on Commogargh (I know that likely is spelled incorrectly) in the fluff - notably Marines and Daemons (even if Vect did engineer both...)

Besides, it's a big universe, and they are a treacherous bunch - things go wrong (often intentionally!)

[UberBeast]

I think the real question here is are Orks big enough to be a faction...? Oh wait, nevermind.

[Jayden63]

The thing that bugs me about DE as a faction is not their numbers (as pointed out, 40k is meant to represent cool battles from the Dark Millennium, not common battles).

What bugs me is that they're practically unique in fighting virtually all battles on their own terms. They're always on the offensive and if things don't favour them they can just slope off back to Commorragh (which no-one can find). Everybody else will inevitably end up fighting the kind of pitched battle knife-edge encounters represented by a 1500 pt game due to either a sense of duty or blood-lust or both, but there's no good reason for the selfish DE to bother.

Fluff-wise there's nowhere for the other factions to go if they want to fight Dark Eldar. It annoys me, I think GW missed a trick not expanding the fluff to include 'Dark-Eldar-controlled-realspace' where they farm sentients instead of just raiding for them. It would make perfect sense if there really are a lot of DE and they're hungrier all the time.

This is rather what I like about them. They are the darkness that sneaks into your home at night and hides the chip dip. They are just one of those aspects of the Grim Dark that exist and there is little to nothing you can do to stop them. You can't take the fight to them, because you can never find them. They and deamons are the enemies that are always just on the edge of your peripheral vision (only much cooler than Deamons... I hate them as a stand alone army). You've heard stories, your great great grandpa says he survived a Dark Eldar raid, but hes too crazy now to honestly believe. So you know about them, but they don't really exist until they are ripping the flesh from your bones and showing you what color your spleen is. And when you look over at what they are doing to your neighbor, you realize that your getting off easy.

That is the true horror of the DE and why I like them.

[stormblade]

There are easier ways to find out the colour of one's spleen.

I personally didn't mind them until the idiotic respawn fluff but meh, whatever.

[insectum7]

Unlike the Craftworlders or the Exodites, the Dark Eldar have no qualms about breeding like post-apocalyptic rabbits. Nor do they share their cousins' disliking for cloning, growth acceleration, or outright necromancy and similar population boosting practices.

Indeed in the developer round table videos Jes Goodwin says they have a much higher birth rate and they can bring people back from the dead.

Procreation through conventional means is a bit rarer but then again the vast majority of all Dark Eldar are essentially 'vat grown' anyway. They can create as many warriors, male and female, as they please. They can also re-grow any Dark Eldar who has been killed, providing the being in question has some remains left and can afford the process.

While all true, I feel like I should mention that they are one of the most internally violent societies as well. So despite the high birth/resurrection rate, on a per-capita basis their attrition rate even before engaging other factions is also pretty darn high. They seem about as likely to kill each other as Orks.

[madd0ct0r]

more likely - orks can recover from pretty horrendous injuries, so in guess while the damage rate is pretty high, the actual numbers of orks properly killed might be quite low. I imagine when a DE wnat's his firend dead, they're rather more thorough about it (reincarnating from a toes aside)

[Poseidal]

While all true, I feel like I should mention that they are one of the most internally violent societies as well. So despite the high birth/resurrection rate, on a per-capita basis their attrition rate even before engaging other factions is also pretty darn high. They seem about as likely to kill each other as Orks.

It's not as if Orks aren't prolific or anything either.

[Lupe]

more likely - orks can recover from pretty horrendous injuries, so in guess while the damage rate is pretty high, the actual numbers of orks properly killed might be quite low. I imagine when a DE wnat's his firend dead, they're rather more thorough about it (reincarnating from a toes aside)

I assume the internal murders and backstabbing are somewhat discouraged by the knowledge that the guy you just killed might come back from the dead with bloody vengeance on his mind.

However, I'm now having some very, very fun mental images of what happens when two guys with access to resurrection technology decide to play the eye for an eye game. Revenge turns into an all-out arms race, with the two rivals coming up with scheme after scheme to bypass each other's increasing paranoia, while trying to burn out each other's soul to the point where further reincarnation is either impossible or too expensive.