How were the Iron Hands devastated after Istvaan?

[Sqallum]

In numerous sources it says that the Iron Hands were all but wiped out after Istvaan and suffered terriblec losses there. However..... Ferrus Manus only used the Morlock Terminators, who numbered a thousand and were, with a few exceptions, wiped out. In Fulgrim it is quite clear here only used his veterans.

So where were these appalling losses?

[shadowhawk2008]

Its been retconned??

[Col. Tartleton]

So losing the Primarch and his hand picked thousand best marines isn't an appalling loss?

It's been adapted slightly.

It's crippling. Complete decapitation. They basically lost the entire high command and all the officers in waiting. Which combined with what I can only imagine will be more losses to the Legion itself in the future of the series is probably part of why to this day the Iron Hands are divided into autonomous companies, effectively splintered warbands, not unlike the traitor legions.

[Noserenda]

Yup, and I got the feeling there were more than a thousand Morlocks too.

But mostly losing the Primarch, senior officers and all the veterans mustve hurt...

[Scalebug]

Is it really saying they were numerically destroyed, though? Aren't you mixing it up with the Salamanders, and to an even larger extent the Raven Guard?

But as the others said, losing the primarch and first company was going to hurt, and even apart from the massive blow to morale and high-end equippment, to enough of re-organisation to essentially take them mostly out of the picture for the relatively short time the Heresy lasted.

[BooTMGSG]

The loss of the Primarch is a serious blow. Plus anyone who was could pick up the pieces also got snuffed out.
Also didn't Fulgrim toast their fleet when he escaped? This was why The Iron Hand had a smaller presence on Istvaan, as Ferus rushed all he could to the fight.

I'd imagine that following Istvaan, they'd have two choices. Pull out of the fight, or Join in and take heavy loses as their best leaders are gone. I suspect they chose the latter.

[ryng_sting]

Perhaps the others landed shortly afterwards or were decimated in space - Ferrus and the Morlocks can't have been that far ahead of them. Since they only sire two successor chapters and can't play any further part in the Heresy, they can't have left Istvaan with too many marines.

[stormblade]

They might sire only two succesor chapters but as I remember they kind of ignored the whole codex thing so there might have been more of them.

[shadowhawk2008]

Perhaps the others landed shortly afterwards or were decimated in space - Ferrus and the Morlocks can't have been that far ahead of them. Since they only sire two successor chapters and can't play any further part in the Heresy, they can't have left Istvaan with too many marines.

You might wanna reconsider that :-) The authors and editors have hinted several times that the Iron Hands are going to play a bigger part in the Heresy. Dorn especially is going to be involved in one way or another.

[Sqallum]

You might wanna reconsider that :-) The authors and editors have hinted several times that the Iron Hands are going to play a bigger part in the Heresy. Dorn especially is going to be involved in one way or another.

Oooh, I know I can't wait for more info on the Traitor Iron Hands (yup, really) and how they will get revenge on the traitorous scum

[Poncho160]

Traitor Iron Hands???? Have I missed something along the way? When was there ever traitor Iron Hands during the Heresy?

[Inquisitor Engel]

It's crippling. Complete decapitation. They basically lost the entire high command and all the officers in waiting. Which combined with what I can only imagine will be more losses to the Legion itself in the future of the series is probably part of why to this day the Iron Hands are divided into autonomous companies, effectively splintered warbands, not unlike the traitor legions.

This makes total sense. Bravo.

[shadowhawk2008]

Traitor Iron Hands???? Have I missed something along the way? When was there ever traitor Iron Hands during the Heresy?

I'm confused as well. Traitor Iron Hands getting revenge on the traitors.... eh what?

[Scalebug]

I'm confused as well. Traitor Iron Hands getting revenge on the traitors.... eh what?

I think one of you or both got confused by your "Dorn especially is going to be involved in one way or another" remark there, assuming Dorn was going to oppose them somehow? Care to elaborate on that?

But in any case, it seems plausible we will learn more about what the Iron Hands did during heresy as the book series continues, there have not been really anything said about them other than losing the Primarch and veterans during Istvaan, and then contributing few chapters during the second founding after the war.

Look at how there wasn't much written about the Word Bearers before they played a big part in the novels now; essentially all we knew was that they joined with Horus and had already before that fallen in secret to chaos while feigning loyalty.

[Sqallum]

Because on... the Bolter and Chainsword it has been mentioned about an upcoming Horus Heresy novel centred on the Iron Hands, and how a portion of IH go rogue, and how the rest of the Legion are after Istvaan. I meant I would like to see how the loyal Iron Hands get revenge on the Traitor Legions. I was in a rush, hence bad sentence strucutre

[Scalebug]

Got exited for a second there, by "Wrath of Iron" being on pre-order at Black Library, and the prospect of rebel nobles in service to Slaanesh being the antagonists, thinking they would revisit the old fluff for the Slaanesh Knight units from Epic, always loved those... but it turned out to be a "modern" Iron Hands novel, in the Battles of the Space Marines series, rather than the next Heresy book... oh, well...

[All Cing Eye]

I suspect in reference to the rogue Iron Hands post-Istvaan we'll see the Iron Hands leadership (what's left of it) not knowing what to do and falling into three different camps.

1. Return to Medusa, rebuild, follow Dorn's orders
2. Take the fight to the traitors across the galaxy
3. Ally with the traitors, become corrupted, link up with members of the Dark Mechanicus

[Scalebug]

From what we see in their "modern" description, they might never fully rebuild a top-down command structure for their Legion/chapter, as they are M41 organized in more or less autonymous grand companies, coming together only when the chapter really needs to put serious weight in...

[konnor]

In the short story Little Horus in Age of Darkness it says that they encounter a rouge element of Iron Hands or it could be just one a bit rusty on that but I take it to mean that with the aforementioned loss of their command structure some scattered companies warbands or what have you take the fight to the traitors in whatever capacity they can

[Erikjust]

A small side question does Istvaan V still exist in "present day" in the 40k universe and if so is it a place anyone ever come there maybe in a pilgrimage of sorts or have the Inqusition turned the planet to dust especially since Nurgel had some followers there.