Dead Winter, any takers?

[unwanted]

I finished this latest offer from master of all things Skaven-novelly, C. L. Werner a few days ago, and I must say I enjoyed it immensely. First of all, I think he does a splendid job of writing Skaven characters that are believably alien to human ways of thinking, while still getting his depictions of human characters right enough. I also really enjoyed seeing the world of Warhammer in a historical light, where weapons and technology that we take for granted are still new, or yet to be invented, while the institutions of both the Empire and Under-Empire are yet to take the form we know so well. In addition, the political intrigues are well thought out on the human side of things, while Skaven society twists and turns with unscrupulous individuals and dodgy deals set against a believably functioning realm of evil.

Thoughts?

[SunTzu]

I'm only a chapter or two in, and so far I'm finding it a chore.

Sounds like it gets better though, so I'll keep struggling through...

[shadowhawk2008]

You can find my review of it here:
http://thefoundingfields.com/2012/04...er-shadowhawk/

I really enjoyed this one. Its an out and out political thriller set against the backdrop of the Black Plague and it sets up the events of the incoming Skaven invasion really nicely. This is as close as you can get to having a Warhammer Fantasy version of Know No Fear as you can. All the different action scenes and the locations are excellent.

[SunTzu]

This is as close as you can get to having a Warhammer Fantasy version of Know No Fear as you can.

Guess that explains why I'm struggling with it then.

[Xisor]

I don't know, I think it manages KNF's plot slightly better. Instead of capturing the full magnitude of everything, it focuses on telling a handful of stories which could be argued to 'capture' it, but obviously don't. I believe it's five different points of view?

In any case, it's a big cast, but it does them much more justice and develops things in a much more... engaging note than KNF manages. That said, KNF is very much full-on spectacle, Dead Winter is much more a slow burning novel. Calling it a political thriller isn't far from the truth. Historical, insightful, great worldbuilding and deft little touches, but all put with an outright endearing set of stories within.

I'm not sure I'd call it 'the best fantasy book ever', but it's certainly one of ones that surprised me and proved to seem really good, not just resting on gimmicks. (Though I loved KNF, much of it dwells on gimmicks - just well employed, at least for my tastes.)

I think, truly, what I liked most in the novel was that the 'spectacle' isn't dealt with directly. The Black Plague becomes the setting. If KNF had told more in the way of 'full' stories, but set in and around Calth... it'd be like Dead Winter. Personally, as a piece of long fiction with characters and prose and setting and all 'that jazz', I thin it worked a proper treat.

Stick with it, SunTzu, it's a strange one, but I think you'll likely see it as a much better take on the 'drive' behind KNF. Dealing with a different and distinctive setting which has to colour all the stories told within. (Two different ways of approaching similar 'tasks'.)

[Sheena Easton]

Finally, a Time Of Legends book worthy of being called a book and worth reading! I absolutely loved it, especially the machinations of the Skaven (though on initial reading it seems that it may contradict some old fluff slightly).

Some great little plot twists and hooks for all the characters though one of the characters

the rat catcher

I didn't really care about but don't felt that took away from the book as it helped with setting the scene.

[EmperorNorton]

Overall a good read, although the speech-patterns of the Skaven were irritating.
I wonder, though, is there going to be a sequel to this?
Otherwise some of the different storylines seem a bit pointless.

[Styles]

Im half way through and enjoying it, love Werners writing about skaven, fits them perfectly. Also likeing the Empire politics. Im not likeing Mandred though, he seems so far a bit to much of a goodie two shoes, would love it if there was some major twist in the series and the ratcatcher (thats if he does not die, as I say im half way through) somehow got swopped with Manfred and became the Emperor!

[shadowhawk2008]

Overall a good read, although the speech-patterns of the Skaven were irritating.
I wonder, though, is there going to be a sequel to this?
Otherwise some of the different storylines seem a bit pointless.

All Time of Legends novels, barring the Age of Legend anthology, are part of trilogies. The next one will be out same time next year.

[Ponge]

I enjoyed the book, I think both sides got portrayed nicely and I'm looking forward to the next book.

[unwanted]

Overall a good read, although the speech-patterns of the Skaven were irritating.
I wonder, though, is there going to be a sequel to this?
Otherwise some of the different storylines seem a bit pointless.

If Skaven speech-patterns bother you, then you've got the wrong book
While I agree that not all the storylines have any actual bearing on the story itself (so far...), they're more about showing that it's a whole world, from rat-catcher to nobles and emperors, and some of the storylines that seems unrelated will become massively important in the next books.

Also, while Mandred seems like an idealistic young man, there's definitely room for progression in character, which'll temper his attitudes, and make him Emperor-material (... and don't give me any "SPOILER!", anyone who's read the Empire or Skaven timelines should know this...)

[EmperorNorton]

If Skaven speech-patterns bother you, then you've got the wrong book

It bothered me because it was inconsistent. In the book you have a skaven do the typical doubling of adjectives two, three times in a row, then form several perfectly normal sentences.

[Ponge]

It bothered me because it was inconsistent. In the book you have a skaven do the typical doubling of adjectives two, three times in a row, then form several perfectly normal sentences.

I think thats a good way of not overdoing the doubling. Don't see why it would even bother you to be honest.

[EmperorNorton]

I think thats a good way of not overdoing the doubling. Don't see why it would even bother you to be honest.

Because language is not random like that, there should be a discernable pattern.

[unwanted]

True enough.

A possible explanation, brought up by the various bits of lore could be that it's varying dialects, as well as the fact that Skaven are usually noted as doing the twin-word thing when agitated, while they'll use two seemingly opposite-meaning words when they're doing skaven double-speak, aka being duplicitous. However, I admit that I'm just a huge fan of C.L. Werner's work on Skaven, and that I'd go to great lengths to defend and/or redirect criticism, so there may well be some mistakes in there as well

[EmperorNorton]

Well, it's not fundamental criticism anyway, just a minor nitpick. Although small details like that are what makes the difference between a decent read and a really good book.
I like Werner's work myself*, I think he is the best writer Black Library has.

*Aside from Palace of the Plague Lord, I hated that one with a passion.

[Xisor]

CL Werner's noted a few times that the double-speak is for emphasis and an indication of emotive states. Superiors ordering inferiors typically doesn't involve double-speak, similarly bickering between 'peers'. But inferiors addressing a superior? Much double-speak. Alarmed? Double-speak.

The pattern's there, apparently.

[Craze_b0i]

On balance I liked it, with a few reservations. CL Werner is definately one of the better BL writers, his descriptive text is generally very good. On the flip side there were a few plot-elements that came off a bit contrived or had you thinking 'hang on a a minute'. Also felt the political scheming among the empire nobles was a bit dragged out

since we already know how Boris Goldgather dies all their scheming is a bit academic

Like The Phantom Menace the whole first book is still waiting for the main event: in this case the skaven invasion (which presumably will happen in book 2).