The highs (and lows) of E3 2012

[Wyrmwood]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gratuitous

[Urgat]

Gritty and dark? I'd say it goes beyond that and is both disgusting and gratuitous.

Really? Could it be the first TR game that I could like?

[Wyrmwood]

There's being abhorrent for a point; for a purpose and there's doing it for shock value and the mistaken belief that it shows maturity.

[Urgat]

Well I don't know anything about the new TR game (I dislike this series, hate the sloppy gameplay, etc), so I've never cared one bit about that Nth opus. What's so shocking about it?

[superdupermatt]

I know what gratuitous means, I wanted to know what you found particularly so. But hey, enjoy your post count.

[Wyrmwood]

Well I don't know anything about the new TR game (I dislike this series, hate the sloppy gameplay, etc), so I've never cared one bit about that Nth opus. What's so shocking about it?

I'm not a fan of the series before now either and it's always bothered me that Lara Croft is... Well, what she is. The trailer for the prequel is basically five minutes of her being tortured.

I know what gratuitous means, I wanted to know what you found particularly so. But hey, enjoy your post count.

Then why didn't you say that, making it clear, rather than simply posting one word posed as a question? I made an assumption. Naturally, my response was to raise my post count in a sub-forum that doesn't count towards the total.

I found the excessive focus on violence, at the expense of in-game content, to be gratuitous. The nature of the game, highlighted as it were, really bugged me; showing Lara Croft... 'Treated' the way she was is in nothing but bad taste.

[superdupermatt]

So out of curiosity, do you find games like left 4 dead or dead space gratuitous?

[Wyrmwood]

So out of curiosity, do you find games like left 4 dead or dead space gratuitous?

I can only comment on Left 4 Dead 2 and the first Dead Space game.

I do, though they're different: Left 4 Dead has you shooting the living dead, echoes of people; Dead Space has you killing alien monsters in an over the top, B-Movie setting; neither games are serious, neither try to be (though with the original Dead Space, it's debatable) and neither objectify human suffering. The context and perception is what is important, it's what distinguishes them from Tomb Raider.

The ludicrous nature of both games is what sets them apart from something like Tomb Raider, which is simply dressed up sleaze.

[Urgat]

The trailer for the prequel is basically five minutes of her being tortured.

Oh. But that's not gratuitous: many people have always wanted to see Lara Croft being tortured, no?
Curious about what aspect of the character bothers you though... the fact she's a big-breasted bimbo? She's a tomb raider (well...)? That wherever she goes, she slaughters endangered species?

[Londinium]

I can only comment on Left 4 Dead 2 and the first Dead Space game.

I do, though they're different: Left 4 Dead has you shooting the living dead, echoes of people; Dead Space has you killing alien monsters in an over the top, B-Movie setting; neither games are serious, neither try to be (though with the original Dead Space, it's debatable) and neither objectify human suffering. The context and perception is what is important, it's what distinguishes them from Tomb Raider.

The ludicrous nature of both games is what sets them apart from something like Tomb Raider, which is simply dressed up sleaze.

It's not really gratuitous in any way, it's an attempt to push the boundaries of video games a bit more. If the medium is ever going to grow up properly then things like the new Tomb Raider game dealing with slightly controversial things are good for the industry. If it's acceptable in literature and movies, it should be acceptable in video games...interestingly when movies and literature tried to push boundaries do things that hadn't been done in those genres before, people jumped up and started claiming it was gratuitous and obscene aswell and now it's accepted for what it is. I really don't get the big controversy about that Tomb Raider trailer, it's high time mainstream videogames outside of a few like Heavy Rain or story driven stuff like MGS tackled controversial stuff.

[Eumerin]

It's not really gratuitous in any way, it's an attempt to push the boundaries of video games a bit more. If the medium is ever going to grow up properly then things like the new Tomb Raider game dealing with slightly controversial things are good for the industry.

And if you believe that, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you...

People always try to market gratutious product as "edgy" or "expanding boundaries for the better" or something similar. That misses the fact that plenty of that sort of thing is already available. It's just that usually it doesn't turn up in big name franchises that everyone recognizes, such as Tomb Raider.

[I3uLLioN]

I see the Daily Mail readers have come out in force. "Wont somebody think of the children!?!"

I really liked the look of Watch Dogs... although I agree that it was quite a poor showing from the big 3.

[Wyrmwood]

It's not really gratuitous in any way, it's an attempt to push the boundaries of video games a bit more. If the medium is ever going to grow up properly then things like the new Tomb Raider game dealing with slightly controversial things are good for the industry.

Let's be quite clear here, what you're saying and what I saw in that trailer are two completely different things. I'm all for the growth of a medium; in fact, I like plenty of dark, gritty and realistic games - downright horrific affairs. The point I'm making, is that in the Tomb Raider trailer it all seems to be done for it's own sake; to sell the damn game. After all, that's what a trailer is supposed to be, right?

Furthermore, what's the point of it? To show how Lara Croft became the 'Tomb Raider', how unimaginative and simply ridiculous to portray that origin story as something where she's constantly and simply brutalised; no, I don't think that's an exaggeration. Tomb Raider was always about a heavily objectified woman, now it's about that same objectified woman being tortured: you want growth for the medium, how about it moves away from something like that?

If it's acceptable in literature and movies, it should be acceptable in video games...interestingly when movies and literature tried to push boundaries do things that hadn't been done in those genres before, people jumped up and started claiming it was gratuitous and obscene aswell and now it's accepted for what it is.

Things that haven't been done before? Again, I like plenty of unique, innovative works in film, literature, music and video games. You're blowing this way out of proportion and making a bizarre assumption: a trailer in which a woman is brutalized to demonstrate, what - how she becomes so 'tough' is not a ground breaking work. It's nothing to get excited about.

I'm a very big fan of Silent Hill 2; in that game, it's pretty obvious that one of the main characters was sexually abused by her father - does it outright say it? No. It's shown within the context of the game through symbolism; it's clever, it's unique. Yes, it's still horrific; but it's not thrown in there for a lack of imagination, or to simply espouse shock tactics.

I really don't get the big controversy about that Tomb Raider trailer, it's high time mainstream videogames outside of a few like Heavy Rain or story driven stuff like MGS tackled controversial stuff.

Again, Metal Gear Solid and Heavy Rain both have points; stories, nothing is done for it's own sake. Nor did either game advertise those things to sell the damn game. The heavy handed use of it in the trailer implies it's the selling point of the game, whether true or not, rather simply horrific yet relevant content.

I see the Daily Mail readers have come out in force. "Wont somebody think of the children!?!"

Am I saying that the game should be banned, censored or lobbied? No. Am I saying that this game will damage children? No. Am I saying that people shouldn't buy it? No, people can buy whatever pleases them. This is an internet forum; this is a thread about the highs and lows of E3 and I find the Tomb Raider trailer to be in bad taste.

[eldargal]

I don't see the fuss over the TR trailer to be honest. She seemed to be a scared young woman put in a situation out of her control and trying to survive, much more interesting than the old 'busty superhero with guns' character she was before. Of course it is being done for sales, the whole game is being made for sales. Every game is made for sales. It isn't a question of why they are doing it, but how well it is done. It seemed to be well done. Even the 'controversial' implied 'attempted rape' is not half as ridiculous as people are making out. Rape isn't exactly rare and having its depiction as some kind of taboo in videogames (tantamount to pretending it doesn't exist in my opinion) is more offensive to me than anything else. I'm an archaeologist, a lot of my friends are archaeologists and I know one who was actually raped on a dig and a few others, including myself, who have had to deal with far worse than what the trailer depicts on a dig. Just regular digs too, no mercenaries in sight.

This is the first Tomb Raider game I've been interested in since I played the first two precisely because it seems to be showing her as a realistic young woman overcoming a horrific situation rather just a rich dumb wench looting archaeological sites (though there may be more of that later).

Don't misunderstand, I can understand why some people find it offensive and I'm not saying they shouldn't. But arguing that just because it is Tomb Raider that what they are doing is somehow automatically gratuitous and tasteless is silly. Violence against women is offensive, but that doesn't mean it can't be used as character development because the fact is women survive these things literally every day and it shapes their character.

[superdupermatt]

This is the first Tomb Raider game I've been interested in since I played the first two precisely because it seems to be showing her as a realistic young woman overcoming a horrific situation rather just a rich dumb wench looting archaeological sites (though there may be more of that later).

I am under the same impression in regards to Tomb Raider, but for me the point is moot as I won't be buying it anyway.

I also need to watch more trailers as I saw two, the first one were she is on the ship as it crashes and then the gameplay trailer where she starts hanging upside down.

[Urgat]

Just went to youtube, and I saw the same trailers as superdupermatt. I saw nothing that bothered me in these two trailers at least. I wonder what's the player supposed to, well, play, based on all that though. Guess time will tell.
Oh, on a side note, I have to say I did like what I saw, it looked slick, at least. And the events in those trailers made sense to me, I can perfectly see all that happen in that kind of situation, and I don't really agree it's all just a marketing ploy. I mean, it's rated R, that's not the best way to get to the largest group of buyers ever if you basically make it so every player under 18 are not supposed to buy it. They could have easily censored the whole thing, have a low rating, and sell the game on its looks and on its name. That's what all the other TR did before, and if there was so many, I guess it wasn't a commercial failure to do so.

[Stormtrooper Clark]

Planetside 2 and Watch Dogs... the latter of which will now be overhyped into the new Dead Island thus doomed to fail. You know an E3 is rubbish when Ubisoft win of all people. Let us also never utter the word "girlwood" ever again.

No Company of Heroes 2 made it all the more sour.

[Urgat]

ou know an E3 is rubbish when Ubisoft win of all people.

Better Ubisoft than Electronic Arts.

[Caiphas Cain]

What's wrong with Ubisoft? They've released some pretty good games. Why the hate?

[Freak Ona Leash]

What's wrong with Ubisoft? They've released some pretty good games. Why the hate?

Shadowbane alone forgives Ubisoft of all sins in my opinion. Though to be fair, it sucked fairly hard for several years before Wolfpack made "shadowbane.exe" happen slightly less and the balance was somewhat better. Of course it was free and that was good. Also, half-giants.

Dishonored looks pretty cool, in my opinion. That's about all I've paid attention to this year from E3, and that's because I'm a sucker for anything and everything steampunk. The sea shanty theme song made me happy too