Corner an Abom

[Judochop]

So player A has an HPA and everyone knows it has random movement. Player B has a fast calvery unit that can free reform. So what if the Fast cav move up to it exactly 1 inch away exactly parallel to it. This would technically make the HPA unable to turn at all and be forced to move straight forward the whole game correct? Reason being is when the HPA moves it could never pivot on the spot without getting within 1 inch of the fast cav unit, thus making it go only direclty forward. Looks like this would work to me as long as the fast cav were able to keep up and it didnt get killed by magic or shooting. What do you think?

[theunwantedbeing]

It works on units that don't move via Random movement special rules.

[LiddellHart]

It would work on me: I would pick up my stuff and head in a straight line to the door, never pivoting for one moment.

[Agoz]

It would work on me: I would pick up my stuff and head in a straight line to the door, never pivoting for one moment.

Ditto, it isn't a tactic, its a loophole.

[NitrosOkay]

It would work on me: I would pick up my stuff and head in a straight line to the door, never pivoting for one moment.

If you brought a single Hell pit maybe, but if you bring two or three you're asking for something like this.

[Judochop]

Well, rules are rules. I'll be using this tactic at my game store as I have no remorse for skaven. Just thought I would share with others, especially if they hate seeing HPA's on the table.

[RanaldLoec]

Please use it in context.

In a no holds barred tournament by all means fill your boots.

In a pick up "friendly" game only try it if your not too bothered about playing your opponent again or about gaining a reputation.

[Lord Inquisitor]

As theunwantedbeing pointed out in the first reply, it won't work against HPAs. As they're random movement, they're allowed to move within an inch when moving (or they'd never be able to charge anything!*), so the HPA will simply pivot into contact with your unit and close the door.

Against other units it can work to some degree. Particularly very long units like Bret cav buses can be vulnerable to being "pinned" but the utility is rare. Typically you'll require two units, but a couple of units of furies or harpies one on each side can really squirrel up such long units in certain specific circumstances.

*This isn't explicit in the rules but is implicit, unless you want to argue that random movement units can't charge anything, ever.

[Judochop]

They way I understand it is that if random move would bring you into contact with enemey then it counts as charging through normal charge rules. So if a unit is directly parallel to the flank of a HPA facing it and say just a little back what would end up happening is you would charge the flank of the HPA in to the front of said unit. Under normal charging rules you cant charge your flank into a unit? Correct? Sounds funky, I'll just have to talk with my local game group about this.

[T10]

Perhaps it would have been best if all single-model units with the Random Movement special rule used circular bases.

-T10

[hazmiter]

I for one will not use said tactic, unless forces to, it seems like it ties too much up in one place, and leaves you open to nasty stuff.
Bring out sword of rhuin and xbows......

[Satan]

Perhaps it would have been best if they just rewrote the Random Movement special rule.

-T10

I agree completely.

[Memnos]

Please read the random movement rule. "If a model comes in contact with the enemy, it counts as having charged."

So if he starts to turn and comes in contact with you, then he counts as charging.

However, this trick might work if you could stay one inch away from him and with his random roll manages to not make contact - Maybe by using some sort of fifth dimensional physics - Then he wouldn't be able to charge you.

However, if you were within his random movement distance, he hits you.

[hazmiter]

The pivot happens before the roll though.
Rule stipulation is 1 inch between you, and opponent, this goes for trying to charge "squeeze" warsphinxes through a 2" gap.......

[Memnos]

Doesn't matter when the pivot happens. It's a separate sentence. If someone is going to be ******* and pull a move like this, then I'm going strictly by the wording. In this case, a sentence that could have nothing to do with the previous sentence about rolling. In fact, depending on how ******* they got, I might accidentally tip over my model and then point out that he counts as charging whatever he accidentally touched. Or lay down a marker to show where the model is supposed to be on the table, then pick it up and randomly walk over and tap models on the opponents side and claim I charged them as per the rule.

[hazmiter]

I see your point memnos, and it is a below the belt cheap shot to use that tactic, I've done quad hydra at 4k points, that was nasty.

[Sexiest_hero]

Skaven have so many chaff and redirectors not to mention guns and direct damage, it would only work on the most beginner of players, IF it worked. Stick to flaming attacks to kill Aboms.

[Memnos]

The last time I played a 3 Abom list with my Beastmen, I killed 4 Abominations.

One got back up.

Throwing out massive damage to break monsters using any army isn't that hard. You don't have to resort to clearly shifty rules interpretations to kill them.

[GodlessM]

How on earth do people see this as a loophole? The 1" rule and reform/pivoting rules as well as random movement are all clearly laid out with no ambiguity and this is a clearly forseeable circumstance of those rules' combination. There is no amount of lawyering or explaining needed here so I fail to see how it is a loophole. I also find it amusing that people laying Aboms are complaining that there is a counter to them.

[hamsterwheel]

Interesting scenario. Unfortunately the HPA's forward arc is determined after it pivots or the random move rules wouldn't work at all since it tells you to measure the distance of the dice rolls(which is after the pivot) to determine if it meets its charge range. It can just turn a little bit, move forward half a inch and clip your fast cav, then you'll have to deal with the D6 impact hits which will probably cost you the combat.