Insanity: Deciding to start a Sisters of Battle Army

[VendableFall]

just to let the OP know, this thread inspired me to start a SOB army, ive always wanted one but like many others dismissed it, because of the cost and percieved weakness of the codex, but sometimes youve gotta just do what you want!

[Ebon]

Personally, I think you're mad. But that's ok. We're all grognards here so we're all a little bit mental. Beware that you might well have to deal with FC eventually (since GW seem determined to shift their whole range to the damn stuff). GW might drop the army entirely but I think that an outright burial (ala Squats) is unlikely. More likely, as the Sarge said, is that they get minor updates just to keep the army viable but never get new releases and are pretty much sidelined.

[Killgore]

A bloke at my local store has started a SOB army, he seems rather pleased with it. The models are expensive but so are many other GW\FW armies. He also likes the rules, claiming that the new list is better than the old Witch Hunters codex, but with many things thats his own personal opinion.

So go for it, bring the fire and flame of the Emperor to your foes!

[Bartali]

just to let the OP know, this thread inspired me to start a SOB army, ive always wanted one but like many others dismissed it, because of the cost and percieved weakness of the codex, but sometimes youve gotta just do what you want!

There's nothing particularly wrong with the strength of the codex (at least in 5th). The main problem is that it only really has one build, and that build is a tad bland

[AGC]

So go for it, bring the fire and flame of the Emperor to your foes!

That's pretty much the consensus of the thread, to the Original Post'er: There is no sign that anything Games Workshop is going to do after 6th edition will affect the Sisters of Battle so you might as well go for it now while the models are still available.

[Commissar Merces]

just to let the OP know, this thread inspired me to start a SOB army, ive always wanted one but like many others dismissed it, because of the cost and percieved weakness of the codex, but sometimes youve gotta just do what you want!

Glad to hear that mate.

Ebon. I am mad. I agree. That is why more play testing is needed. The main issue I am having is funding. Rules and what not don't bother me as much, however, I really wanted more of an inquisitorial army (but not grey knights) it seems like I missed the boat a couple of months ago... very frustrating.

To the Australian gentleman/woman- I live in the US so that will make it a bit harder. PM me with specifics if you want.

[DEADMARSH]

Just keep an eye on eBay, man. The main thing you have going for you is this isn't your first 40k army. It's not like you will be sitting on the sidelines unable to play until you finish this army. Sisters aren't particularly popular right now, so if you were ever going to pick them up on eBay, now is the time. I mean, I don't know the going rate of Sisters, but a couple of quick looks and they seem relatively cheap to me (compared to GW retail).

For my second army, I wanted to start a Steel Legion guard army back around 2005. I really went back and forth about it because I thought it'd be really expensive as they're also all metal. It really didn't end up costing any more than a normal plastic Guard army. I got lucky three or four times on eBay and got the bulk of my troops there, then filled in specific "must haves" like sergeants, heavy weapon squads, and special weapon troops from the GW online store. I've absolutely never regretted it. I love playing a non-standard army.

Main thing I'd suggest you do is get those White Dwarfs with the Sisters rules, look over this optimized build everyone has mentioned, and decide on your army list before you start buying. I don't know at what all levels you play, but figure out your lists for 750, 1000, 1250, 1500, 1750, 2000, etc. or whatever then buy the models that support those lists. Chances are, you'll have a lot of repeat entries, so figure out, "Ok, I need 22 of these Sisters with bolters, 8 with a multi-melta, 4 with flamers," etc.

(Please note I have no idea what goes into a Sisters Army- the above is just an example)

It's kind of a pain in the ass as you don't really know how your stuff plays until you play with it, but again- you're something of a veteran, so you ought to be able to get it pretty close to right on the first try. Buy a few extra models if you're going to be converting (and realize that weapon swaps are tough- #1 reason I don't do melta vets- there weren't any Steel Legion models with meltaguns), but don't go nuts and buy a ton of stuff you really don't need. Also consider the price break between mechanizing your girls and keeping them on foot, and mind if either of those fit into your personal playstyle before you start dropping cash.

If you figure out your actual needs before you start buying and bidding, it'll help keep you on track and help keep your costs down. Don't be afraid to buy pre-painted stuff and strip it. That's one of the beautiful things about metal figures! Throw 'em in a bucket with some brake cleaner and hose them off 30 minutes later. Use a toothbrush (old, preferably, and not the aforementioned girlfriend's) to clean up the paint that gets stuck in the details, and you'll be back to bare models before you know it. Me personally, I don't have the greatest of luck stripping plastic (which is to say, I feel like I spend enough time with it I should have just bought new to start with and saved myself the cost of the cleaner and my personal time), but you really can return metal to a like-new condition with the right cleaner and very little work on your part.

Good luck!

[Shandara]

Like the above poster, best bet is to trawl Ebay for a few months, snapping up any good auctions. Stay away from the shops selling (painted) squads, because they tend to ask near retail price (or more!) for claimed OOP figures. The beauty of metal figures is they can be stripped perfectly well, but for plastic (i.e. transports/tanks) I'd stick to buying new. Luckily the Immolator kit didn't go up in price (just 1 euro difference with a Rhino now) so there's even less reason to buy Rhinos instead of Immolators. Just leave the turret unglued and you have both in one kit.

[shabbadoo]

Not to be a jerk, but I highly advise against listening to this rumor. It's been circulating forever.

The Sisters have been dropped for all intents and purposes. They issued a WD codex so you could still use the old models, but it seems apparent that GW wasn't impressed by the sales of the figures, even with the Witch Hunters codex. No new figures have been issued in years, and there's been nothing but hopeful, but completely baseless, rumors that there were "plastics in the works".

Wow. I guess Harry is all about posting baseless rumors now (that is where the plastic Sisters rumor came from by the way), but the above is exactly what people said about Dark Eldar, and GW have continued to ignore the Dark Eldar in a major way. Don't be surprised if there is a Dark Eldar level of revamped kits released for Sisters/Witch Hunters this next time around for 6E, and I bet even I will be surprised at how far back some of the dates on the plastic sprues go. Besides, Jes Goodwin hasn't only been working on Dark Eldar, Tyranids, and the Ork Flier kit for the last few years. The Dark Eldar were a long time in coming, but what a payoff that was with regard to players being satisfied with their models. Given time, Jes and crew put out some amazing work, and they have had a lot of time. I think that bodes really, really well for Sisters/Witch Hunters.

[AGC]

Wow. I guess Harry is all about posting baseless rumors now (that is where the plastic Sisters rumor came from by the way)

I don't think Harry ever mentioned seeing plastics. He said they had started work on Sisters immediately after Grey Knights so made a prediction that they would be the next codex released. And that, he has said, is the last he ever heard of them. Harry has stated that the White Dwarf codex came as a complete surprise to him and he has no idea what the situation with the SoB now is.

Quite literally the last rumour regarding sisters came from Stickmonkey from just before the WD codex release in which he said they had been shelved due to not being able to realise the designs with existing technology. Since then nothing.

But none of this affects the original poster or his buying decisions. He should just go ahead and trawl ebay.

[StraightSilver]

I can absolutely assure you that Sisters are not being dropped. Yes they have been held up in the design process due to technological problems, but I can categorically say they aren't being dropped.

When they do come the new models will be amazing.

And Sisters will be awesome in 6th Edition too, they are one of the armies that gets a nice boost due to the new rules.

[Commissar Merces]

I can absolutely assure you that Sisters are not being dropped. Yes they have been held up in the design process due to technological problems, but I can categorically say they aren't being dropped.

When they do come the new models will be amazing.

And Sisters will be awesome in 6th Edition too, they are one of the armies that gets a nice boost due to the new rules.

My obvious question is how do you know all this? haha. You bring good news yet I am inclined to take with a heap of salt.

[StraightSilver]

Because I had a long chat with Jes Goodwin about Sisters when the new Dark Eldar models were released.

Sisters of Battle plastics have been in the pipeline for a while, but unfortunately their original design doesn't lend itself to plastic very well. The biggest problem is the "robed" arms on the models, which when you try to start multi-posing cause problems as the cloth needs to flow in the right direction.

The other issue is their hair, as Jes stated they wanted to make much more dynamic models, similar to the Dark Eldar, and again the problem is ensuring that all the parts work well together when posed, and that the "dynamic action" all flows in the same direction.

These were issues the designers were really struggling with, and the Sisters were put on hold until these issues could be resolved.

At the time Jes was also working on the new Dark Eldar models, and they ran into the exact same problems with the plastic Wytches.

However these problems were solved, and meant that they could revisit Sisters once the Dark Eldar release was complete.

Bear in mind that the design process for Dark Eldar took 5 years of hard work, so don't expect Sisters any time soon, but I can assure you they have most definitely not been forgotten, and the design team are well aware that they can't mess them up or rush them.

Trust me, the models will be gorgeous, but these things do take time.

In terms of the new rules, 6th Edition is apparently all about Jump Infantry, flamers, rapid fire weapons and power armour. Oh hang on a minute, that's Sisters!!

[King Arthur]

I m starting a SOB army currently and have 23 battle sisters and uriah jacobus arrived today my 1k was gonna be excorcist saint celestine 7 seraphims with inferno pistols and hand flamers 20 battle sisters with flamer power weapon and multi melta 10 battle sisiters with multi melta and 5 retributers with 4 multimeltas!!! good luck with the costs!!!

[AGC]

These were issues the designers were really struggling with, and the Sisters were put on hold until these issues could be resolved.

At the time Jes was also working on the new Dark Eldar models, and they ran into the exact same problems with the plastic Wytches.

However these problems were solved, and meant that they could revisit Sisters once the Dark Eldar release was complete.

So where did the White Dwarf Codex come from? We've always been told that codexs are developed in parallel to the models, neither DE or Orks got a WD codex despite being two editions out of date. If we take what you're saying at face value Games Workshop has been developing two codexs for the same army for the same edition of the game. (The WD codex is universally accepted as being a 5/6 th edition crossover the way Orks is a 4/5 th edition crossover.)

It would seem more likely to me that the WD codex came about precisely because the sisters were not being worked on for 6th edition but they still wanted to keep the promise that every army would get a new codex by the end of 5th.

[Scaryscarymushroom]

It would seem more likely to me that the WD codex came about precisely because the sisters were not being worked on for 6th edition but they still wanted to keep the promise that every army would get a new codex by the end of 5th.

It's also just as plausible that the WD codex exists to tide people over until new models are ready to be released. Say, sometime in 6th.

Despite all my cries and outrage over on GW general, if Games Workshop manages to do a good Sisters of Battle release anytime in the next few years, they could squeeze another couple hundred dollars out of me.

[AGC]

It's also just as plausible that the WD codex exists to tide people over until new models are ready to be released. Say, sometime in 6th.

Not sure what your choice of smiley indicates so I'm taking your words "straight":- I really don't think it is just as plausible. Here's a list of reasons why.

1. As I said neither DE or Orks got a White Dwarf codex to keep them playable despite being two editions out of date.
2. The only precedent for a White Dwarf codex (Blood Angels) was more than five years before the full release.
3. Witchhunters were still playable under 5th and the codex was present for most of it.
4. The White Dwarf codex came out 6 months before the new edition, in the past when GW wanted to keep an army playable (Beastmen) for a new edition they've put out an army list on the website just after the main rule book's release and said that it was to keep them playable until the full army book was published.
5. It would mean that GW was simultaneously paying two people to develop two different codexes for the same army just to keep the Vet's happy. I don't think GW is that generous.

All of which suggests to me that people shouldn't expect another release for Sisters until the run up to 7th edition at the earliest.

[Souleater]

My only advice would be not to buy the Exorcist kit but to get a Whirlwind (conversion kit or full model) and put some SoB icons all over it. I love my Exorcist model but dread transporting it to games.

[Scaryscarymushroom]

Not sure what your choice of smiley indicates so I'm taking your words "straight":- I really don't think it is just as plausible. Here's a list of reasons why.

1. As I said neither DE or Orks got a White Dwarf codex to keep them playable despite being two editions out of date.
2. The only precedent for a White Dwarf codex (Blood Angels) was more than five years before the full release.
3. Witchhunters were still playable under 5th and the codex was present for most of it.
4. The White Dwarf codex came out 6 months before the new edition, in the past when GW wanted to keep an army playable (Beastmen) for a new edition they've put out an army list on the website just after the main rule book's release and said that it was to keep them playable until the full army book was published.
5. It would mean that GW was simultaneously paying two people to develop two different codexes for the same army just to keep the Vet's happy. I don't think GW is that generous.

All of which suggests to me that people shouldn't expect another release for Sisters until the run up to 7th edition at the earliest.

It might happen. I'll grant that anything is possible with regards to Sisters of Battle and a new codex. But I don't find any of the reasons you listed compelling enough to convince me that it's more likely that Sisters won't happen by the end of 6th edition, which is presumably 4-8 years away. But, no one can predict the future with any degree of certainty: 7th edition might not ever happen. Unlikely, but possible.

So I'm going to consider all of the points you've listed one at a time and tell you what I think about them. I'm just playing the devil's advocate here.

1. DE and Orks have very little to do with Sisters of Battle. Sisters of Battle were in a completely different place from Dark Eldar, as far as model/rules availability and design was concerned. (I don't open the Witch Hunters codex and think that any of the pictured models look like bad 90's cartoon characters.) Sure, DE perhaps weren't competitive and from a gaming perspective they were badly in need of an update for many years. But as you point out, the Witch Hunters codex went out of print and was no longer sold. I don't think the same was true for DE. Were the Dark Eldar or Orks rules ever distributed via PDF? And I don't think the Orks were two editions out of date. Do you mean Necrons? In the case of Necrons (who were also badly in need of an update from a rules perspective), Games Workshop might not have felt the same need to fix them because the Necron Codex was still commercially available, and about half of the Necron range could still be sold at B & M stores. They weren't impacted in the same way by the weird disappearance of metal models prior to finecast.

Remember that Games Workshop is a public company, and they're interested first and foremost in what makes them money; not what makes Necron/SoB players happy. If Necron battleforces, monoliths, warriors and destroyers can be sold, it's a much less pressing matter than a model range that is direct-order only. Games Workshop wouldn't need to try as hard to generate interest in Necrons as they would in Sisters.

2. This one isn't true. White Dwarf has been publishing full army lists since the early days of 3rd edition, when Necrons had a WD codex, and Sisters of Battle had a codex. (I believe that the Vampire counts even had a 5th edition Fantasy army list published in White Dwarf.) Then, later in the same edition of the game, the Necrons and Sisters received full books. Now let's consider the Blood Angels WD codex. It may have been more than 5 years, like you say, but that was only 1 edition of the game, wasn't it?

3. I don't get this one. Black Templars have been playable for most (all) of 5th edition. Their codex has been available for all of it. Does that mean that we won't see a Black Templars codex released until 7th edition at the earliest?

4. Between the release of the Beastmen and the distribution of white dwarf 380/381 (I think that's the one) Games Workshop could have completely changed their opinion about whether or not they should use their website to distribute army lists. For all anyone knows, GW regretted the decision to make WHFB/40K rules of any sort free for download. In which case they certainly wouldn't do it again.

5. This one assumes that Games Workshop was working on a codex, along with new models. They could have had the foresight to say "This model kit will take a while to make. We should not write the codex for a while. We need to get this figured out first." There doesn't even need to be any consideration of what vets want. (I agree with you that GW wouldn't bend over backwards for their older customers.)

So, in various ways, all of these points could be explained away; and for all anyone knows, the Sisters Codex could be coming out anywhere from 1 to 10 years from now. For all anyone knows, GW could sell their IP to another company that makes radical changes.

I am assuming, of course, that you don't have an inside scoop.

[shabbadoo]

I don't think Harry ever mentioned seeing plastics. He said they had started work on Sisters immediately after Grey Knights so made a prediction that they would be the next codex released. And that, he has said, is the last he ever heard of them. Harry has stated that the White Dwarf codex came as a complete surprise to him and he has no idea what the situation with the SoB now is.

The BA codex was a surprise too. The WD treatments are just edition updates anyways. Also, Harry says he seldom sees anything, ever, but people put stock in what he passes on anyways because he is usually right. As he freely admits, he just gets the release dates wrong occasionally. Based on when the Dark Eldar revamp begin, people expected them to come out a lot earlier too..until those same people found out that Jes would be taking his time with them. Well, they are taking their time with S.o.B.'s too. Might be we see them in 2013, or even in 2014, but until then, why not start a metal Witch Hunters force if you want to? Most of the models are great, and the few that I think could be a bit better/more interesting still look great when painted well. The Jes Goodwin metals stand the test of time, and then some.