I recently started playing on a 4x4 board. Its a joke. long range guns are inpractical and everything is just kind of meh for the size. I swapped from necrons to my old orks because I could just mob the whole board so fast and easy that it wasn't worth bringing my long range necrons to the board.
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I like 6x4 for 1500-2000 point battles with 25% terrain, but when you get to 2000+ I like to double up two 6x4 board to make an 8x6 board. its just a simple way to make the battle larger. use 18'' deployment zones instead of 12''. gives assault armies the ability to deploy farther, but shooty armies can deploy farther back with actual room to bubble wrap their shooty things or whatnot.
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Has anyone tried just halving the distances everything can move and shoot?
That could work, actually. I might give it a go...Originally Posted by DietDolphin
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Doesn't work.
To avoid major distortions, you also have to halve disembark, assault, etc, etc distances, and a flamer now has a longer range than many rifles...
It also brings the model scale problem more to the front...
Can't move vehicles onto the board, due to slow movement
can get full squads out of transports, due to disembark problems
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Back when I could I always used 8'x4'. You do need a vast amount of terrain to fill it properly for a game of 40K, though - yet another reason why Necromunda was so awesome - it provided a lot of extra terrain.
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I was implying halving all distances, not JUST movement and shooting. Most of the things you mentioned can be dealt with by using common sense. The only one thats a real problem is the flamer template, but you could easily make a template yourself roughly half the size, same with blast markers.
^ If you can get your hands on one, the old hand flamer template from 2nd edition?
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But if you're going to halve the template you also have to halve squad coherency to 1". Thats going to get messy.
Honestly, I dont think this is the solution.
Hi all.
Its simply playing area ,compared to model coverage density and terrain coverage density.
28mm minatures are mainly used for skirmnish games.
(Ancient battle games can use larger scale minatures to represent multiple smaller scale minatures for asthetic reasons.Eg 1 28mm minature on a 20mm base, is the equivilent of 10 6mm figures covering the same area.)
And moderns/sci fi battle games seem to use 15mm to 10mm minatures to alow massive battles on standard sized tables.
(And the cost of collecting them is much cheaper, 5 tanks for less than £18, yes please!)
Why are GW pushing large 28mm armies that dont work that well on standard gameing tables?
Becuse they dont expect the majority of thier customers to collect a full 1750pt army , let alone actualy play the full game...(over 80% of customers leave before spending 2 years BDay and Xmas money on the GW hobby.)
If I want to play large battle games in the 40k universe, I use the Epic Armageddon, rules and 10mm minatures.
As the rules are well defined and the game play is much better ballanced than any edition of 40k.
And the massive battle game fits easily on a standard gaming table!
But hey , thats just me.
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You can't very well halve the size of models though, or more appropriately a models base.
At half movement a void raven would almost never get to deploy its void mine even when moving flat out because it has to physically pass over its target
Also a monolith placed in reserve could not move on to the table because it is almost 6" wide and would only ever be able to move 3" (some scenarios force you to reserve units).
The game is designed to operate on a 4' wide board, length is determined by the size of the game. Saying add terrain is all very well, but terrain that totally obscures LoS and us prevents targetting is very difficult/expensive to make because it has to completely block sight to models that can be anything up to 3-4" tall or 6" tall in the case of vehicles. Most horde armies can generate a 4+ cover save themselves by overlapping units so half filling a 6' wide table with woods and 40k buildings isn't going to make a rats ass of difference to the number of casualties that a taken due to shooting.
Last edited by Spiney Norman; 10-06-2012 at 15:34.
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I am curious as to your source of this, partly because it seems too extreme. I know personally in my area we generally see only a handful of people who purchase new GW product not eventually build a full army and play on at least a semi-regular basis, but everyone in my group is honest enough I'd trust them to roll while I went to refill my coffee or had to step away for whatever reason so perhaps my area is an anomaly.
As to why 28mm for large games? Part of it comes down to the level of detail; take a 28mm and a 15mm army of the same size and composition and the 28mm one will look nicer as the greater detail means the more artistic can go insane with conversions and painting. Another reason is that 40K undeniably did better than Epic in sales. Perhaps the rules had a part in it, but the fact that 28mm models look so much better also played a role, I know it did for many people I know. Then there is the fact that 40K did start off as a skirmish game and as it grew, so too did the size of the battles; Rogue Trader armies were smaller than 2nd edition (and, early on at least, if you had a vehicle, whoa), 2nd edition saw the number of models increase, third continued the trend as did fifth, and sixth looks like it too shall do likewise. As a result many players have built up considerable sized forces, a trend which has caused new players to strive to match. We all saw the outcry when Squats were discontinued (still trying to figure out what to use the multi-melta trikes for in my Guard army), imagine what it would be if they said that all those 28mm models you own are only meant for games of a dozen or two guys and everyone would need to buy the new 40K 15mm to play the new edition. I believe, and this is mostly my own opinion, that GW stays with 28mm mainly because it is what has always worked for them and their customers.
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This is a big part of why I am disappointed with WH40K's drifting away from being a skirmish game. The Epic and Warmaster (esp. Warmaster Ancients) rules are much more suited for massive battles than their respective 28mm counterparts.Hi all.
Its simply playing area ,compared to model coverage density and terrain coverage density.
28mm minatures are mainly used for skirmnish games.
(Ancient battle games can use larger scale minatures to represent multiple smaller scale minatures for asthetic reasons.Eg 1 28mm minature on a 20mm base, is the equivilent of 10 6mm figures covering the same area.)
And moderns/sci fi battle games seem to use 15mm to 10mm minatures to alow massive battles on standard sized tables.
(And the cost of collecting them is much cheaper, 5 tanks for less than £18, yes please!)
Why are GW pushing large 28mm armies that dont work that well on standard gameing tables?
Becuse they dont expect the majority of thier customers to collect a full 1750pt army , let alone actualy play the full game...(over 80% of customers leave before spending 2 years BDay and Xmas money on the GW hobby.)
If I want to play large battle games in the 40k universe, I use the Epic Armageddon, rules and 10mm minatures.
As the rules are well defined and the game play is much better ballanced than any edition of 40k.
And the massive battle game fits easily on a standard gaming table!
But hey , thats just me.
Its what the customer wanted. You can still play 40K as a skirmish level game like 2e, you just need self discipline. However you did need a weekend to play 2e like you can now.
Free your hobby! Be creative and stop slavishly following the damn Book.
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I find this thread interesting because I like to play 2000 pt. Cities of Death games on very crowded 6 x 4 tables. Deployment zones aren't much of an issue when strategems like Sewer Rats are in play. Deep Strike and Infiltration helps with the crowding issue too.
If there are too many models to fit in a deployment zone we house rule that some units have to start the game in reserve.
The thing is that their rules haven't quite succeed in meeting that criteria (scaling) effectively as they gradually pushed the model counts upward. There is a certain type of synergy that has to be established between scale and rules and the rules have occupied an uneasy spot between skirmishes and large scale battles for some time. It will be interesting to see how 6th edition scales downwards and upwards points wise.
Like it. When common sense, rules and having fun overlap.
Free your hobby! Be creative and stop slavishly following the damn Book.
RIP Brimstone.
I used to read the GW Other Forum, but I am much happier now.
I also like that. Sounds like it makes for an interesting game.
And yet the games which supported a smaller scale (doesn't make a bigger game btw, just the impression of a bigger game because you are seeing 32mm figures in 6m) just were not popular of a financial success.
People want to play big games in 40K scale. GW wants to sell lots of toy soldiers, is targeting 11-18 yr olds (because no one else does in wargaming), and people that age are less worried about that synergy. In that regard 40K is very successful in what it does, and a 6'x4' battlefield also fits in with the mega-killy-death games that GW has decided 11-18 yr olds want to play.
Free your hobby! Be creative and stop slavishly following the damn Book.
RIP Brimstone.
I used to read the GW Other Forum, but I am much happier now.
It's not like I am saying that the game is an abject failure. You may very well be right that demographics are an issue for me. I am not a kid who wants to throw down as many miniatures as possible and simply have at it each and every time. I'm in my mid-30s and my expectations are shaped by both the history of GW games and knowing what can be done with wargaming rules which, ironically enough, have been done better by WH40K's own inventor even when he was still on GW's payroll.
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