TH/SS Termies. Does anyone use anything else?

[Banville]

Hey Guys and Gals,

Quick Question. Have TH/SS Termies eclipsed their tactical brethren to such an extent that they are all anyone uses anymore? Does the 3++ save trump Lightning claws and Storm Bolters with Power fists every time?

Will the Storm Shield be nerfed this edition? For example, I am perfectly fine with the 3++ save but if certain rumours are reliable (not saying they are) and fire-arcs come back in maybe the 3++ can only be taken against shooting wounds in the front arc?

[MajorWesJanson]

I expect the assault terminators to go with TLLC as standard, and 5 or 10 points to upgrade to TH/SS, like Blood Angels do.

[sean_scanlon2000]

honestly i love my tactical terminators but when they made the 3++ as godly as they did my tacticals going to only i heavy per 5 took a huge toll on their effectiveness. esp when they made the assault cannon cost 30points where as i pay nothing for my termies upgrades.

[Spell_of_Destruction]

Will the Storm Shield be nerfed this edition? For example, I am perfectly fine with the 3++ save but if certain rumours are reliable (not saying they are) and fire-arcs come back in maybe the 3++ can only be taken against shooting wounds in the front arc?

Where did you read that fire arcs are coming back? I actually liked how these worked in 2nd but it's a nightmare working it out for individual models with round bases. At least in 2nd ed most poses were fairly static and models were mounted on slotta bases so you could tell where the 'front' of the model was but I can't see how this would work at all in 6th ed 40k.

[ehlijen]

I love me some shooty termies that have a threat range of 30" (or more with a cyclone) as opposed to only 12".

[Sotek]

Either that or 4++ vs shooting and 3++ in melee. But I expect a +5/10 pts as mentioned also.

[DeviantApostle]

You see other types of Terminators in all-terminator style armies a bit for the Cyclone. Space Wolves pay primo points for the TH/SS configuration, so they're rarer from that book.

If power weapons get AP3 in 6th, don't expect to see less Terminators, particularly TH/SS termies. They just get even more powerful.

Really, they could have made Storm Shields at a 4++ save and they still would have been popular, just not all that and a bag of chips. I wouldn't be surprised if this nerf pops up in the new Space Marine codex.

I don't think we'll see an upgrade in points, since that would mean selling fewer models. I think we're more likely to see some sort of OP boost to things nobody takes right now... like Devastator Squads.

[hobojebus]

Well if the rumour mill is right and power weapons do go to an AP3 system it would make standard termies worth taking again, but i wouldent expect th/ss ones to disappear fully as there's still plenty of ranged weapons at AP2.

[Sami]

Either that or 4++ vs shooting and 3++ in melee. But I expect a +5/10 pts as mentioned also.

I would be happy with this.

[Starchild]

I like to lead Belial's Deathwing command squad with Azrael to get the 4++ save from the helmet bearer, on top of feel no pain from the apothecary. This allows me to be less dependent on storm shields and focus more on doing damage.

I agree that 3++ for storm shields is just plain silly. It doesn't save them from Dire Avenger bladestorms though. With that many shots (especially when doomed/guided) there are bound to be some dreaded 1's on the armour saves.

[Sinisterfence]

I personally take tactical Terminators more than assault Terminators, but that's because the majority of mine are from the 3rd ed. Space Hulk box and I like the models, and I'm not a power player.

[Guyver 3]

I play black templar so i play a mix of 3 tllc and 2 thss in assault units as rerolling to hit and wound with furious charge gives me 12 attacks with double rerolls at st5 int 5 i usually wipe a marine squad out before they strike back.

I also regularly run a 5man tac termies with 2 cyclone missile launchers and tank hunters which sit in cover and Pop tanks with 4 st9 shots and 10 st5 shots a turn.

If you hadn't guessed bt termies are the best

[Jericho]

Termis were indeed much more scary when they could always take 2 heavies and/or a Veteran Skill.

Oh how I miss Veteran Skills on my Vanilla Marines... I'd take Vet Skills over special characters and Chapter Tactics any day!

[Jeru]

I use tac w/ double cyclones for my termis. It's just a preferance. TH/SS are mathematically better to stay alive, but I prefer putting firepower down range

[Schismotive]

Yeah im black templar too so I just take tank hunter cyclone squads. But I also occasionally take assault terminators, in which case its a tough choice. BT make lightning claws actually good, where as other marine armies I would very highly suggest not having any lightning claws...

[Vaktathi]

You see other types of Terminators in all-terminator style armies a bit for the Cyclone. Space Wolves pay primo points for the TH/SS configuration, so they're rarer from that book.

Note: They don't have to take both on the same model, and have alot more flexibilty in use of such wargear. They can take SS's on a couple of models and get most of the benefit (thanks to wound allocation as long as you aren't getting hit with a ton of purely AP2 fire) and there really isn't a point to paying the premium for a TH over a Powerfist.



As is, the SS should have just been a 3++ in melee or a 4+ against everything, either would have worked. For the same cost as other terminators, 3++ against everything just makes them too reliable, even at 5pts more they still are the preferred loadout, it's not until you get to 10ppm more that people start to think twice, and when that happens, there's an obvious issue. LC termi's aren't bad, but the TH is a big threat to just about anything, while an LC may be relatively ignorable by units like...TH/SS termi's (Gasp), some MC's and vehicles as whole. A stormbolter generally doesn't make up for a 3++ invul in most cases with regards to tac termi's.

[GrogDaTyrant]

As is, the SS should have just been a 3++ in melee or a 4+ against everything, either would have worked.

That is exactly what I've been saying since the vanilla marine codex was released, and I'm (still) in complete agreement with you on that opinion. 3++ against anything/everything was too much. Storm Shields needed something, but they didn't need to become a no-brainer option.

[KaisKlip]

3++ save is just right in light of several powers I mention at the end of this post - it gives you a solid defensive bulwark that you can rely on; the whole point of termies. With a 3++ you can know (at least as much as you can know something during a game) that those termies will still be on the board after your opponent's shooting phase, unless your opponent absolutely loves anti-armour firepower. Or is a Salamander.

A simple way of dealing with rival Thundershields is Assault Terminators backed up by Null Zone, or really any other high attack power weapon equipped unit (Vanguards) backed up by something that reduces their greatest strength.

[Bunnahabhain]

With a 3++ you can know (at least as much as you can know something during a game) that those termies will still be on the board after your opponent's shooting phase, unless your opponent absolutely loves anti-armour firepower. Or is a Salamander.

Really? I've found the answer is Kill their raider whilst is is still on the other side of the board, so they lose a turn or two walking across, then (unless they have FNP), hit them with lots of anti infantry firepower. Your AP2 firepower is normally better off killing other, scoring marines, where it will do far more good.

I am in agreement with Vatkathi, they should never have been a 3++ all the time. In my codex re-write, they've been toned down considerably.

[sean_scanlon2000]

hmm in my current 2k list im running a unit of each. im not going to lie, the shooting ones are hard to justify. They don't throw down as much firepower as they did in the last codex. honestly with the toning down of assault cannons as well as the increase in the ability of a decent cover save. Its hard to see how 2 assault cannons would be game breaking... and at 30 points.... your talking about a temri and a half just for 8 str 6 shots.....

As to a solution to the TH/SS combo how about instead of changing it simply 1 allow tacs to take 2 heavy or gasp even 3? 2 bring back vetran skills... this allows you take take things like tank hunters and furious charge on your terminators. and for the love of god bring them back as a command squad as well i miss that too

If you do these then you bring back in the concept of (templars i'm looking at you) effective terminators. hell i know i wouldn't even think twice about using a combination of both or sitting down and being hard pressed to decide which i want more. i know i used to in the last edition... this one not so much.