X Legion WH40K 2500 Point Singles Tournament Saturday 14th + Sunday 15th July 2012!

[Malchek]

lol yes I've read the same rumour! Though if it is 2 FOC's you could have 6 land raiders in an army if anyone has that many!? lol see the warwalkers weep then!

For me personally I'd say to hell with it all and go no holds bar 6th and lets see what happens! It could get messy but I think it would be a cool way of getting used to the rules and it'll be a blast however I'm not going to impose that on the players so anymore opinions and comments are welcome!

Mal

[Enderel]

Blood Angels and various other armies can have more than 6 in a single FOC as is, it's the price points and pound wise that means you don't see them that often (well and fifth edition rules!)

With regards to sixth edition I think we should have some restrictions (allies although that doesn't bother me that much, terrain randomness, terrain purchase, fliers, heavies) but happy to play what ever the majority want to try out..

[GiraffeX]

18 war walkers that's just blasphemy lol

[Avatar111x]

Does anyone want to lend me a shed load of Leman Russes in that case? :-)

[Malchek]

I've got a good 10+ leman russ of varying designations lol

I'm not sure about excluding anything from the rules yet, of course I'm not ruling anything out and I understand from the rumours this edition is going to be less 'orientated' to tournament gaimg but if that's the case then that's just what we've got to work with! I'm hoping it will make for a better and more fun game and if that adversely affects the perception of it being a tournament game doesn't really make alot of difference really!

The main thing I'm interested in doing is keeping it a simple as possible but I'm not sure that is a good idea if it would mean taking some major chunks out of the new format!

[jedimasterwiggy]

So it seems there is support for playing under 6th edition but it isn't universal. I know that previously it had been said that we would have a decision on it by wednesday but I figure we won't know until the book lands EXACTLY what has changed in terms of the army building, scenarios and Allies/Fortifications.
It is Mal's tournie so the discussion and ideas have been good (apart from 18 war walkers!!!!!) but I think the final choice needs to happen when we know how all this gets affected. I agree with the idea that it would be odd for most of us to devour the new rules then go back to playing the old ones but there will be some weird stuff get thrown up?
So how long do we give Mal with the book before we demand an answer from him?
Army lists I'm assuming can go in on the 8th of July? So as long as we get an answer somewhere in first half of next week I'm ok waiting for Mal to read the book and see if any GW FAQ's come out to help smooth the transition

[Malchek]

Sage words wiggy I can always accept army lists a couple of days before the event to give people more time I'll probably only need a day with the book!? lol And as you say GW FAQ's are going to be particularly important so hopefully it'll all go up on saturday!

So far the majority of people attending seem to want it to be 6th ed. Whilst it is my tournament I only hold it for you guys the players so I have no vested interest either way so whichever is the preference I'm happy to go with it

I can imagine there are going to be alot of rules where we might not be sure how to play it (I'm already having a hard time coming to terms with the rumoured wound allocation rules - lets hope they're clear in the book! lol) however, I do think it'll be a good opportunity for people to use the rules in earnest and I think we'll all manage! I have faith in X Legion attendees!

[cynic]

hhhmmm... 18 war walkers eh?....

Enderel, will you be talking your 9 walkers?

Seriously though, i'm not fussed either way. Happy to play 6th. Just means i might have to change the list i was going to take.

[Enderel]

Feel free to borrow them Steve, I'm probably going with Chaos Marines.

[Malchek]

You might find with the new rules warwalkers aren't as good as they used to be.... which will make me very happy!

[GiraffeX]

The thing I'm most looking forward to is allies, it opens up a whole new world of possibilities for painting and modelling.

[Malchek]

Yep there's alot of stuff in 6th ed that looks like its going to expand the boundaries of the game immensely! It will make things a bit more complicated for tournaments, and it may detract from the current perceived 'level' playing field of the 5th ed tournament scene but I have a good feeling its going to make it all alot more fun and that can only be better

[Malchek]

So I've spent all day with the new rule book having a good read and I'm very very happy with the new rules I'm sure they're going to be alot of fun! It may seem to be a bit complicated on first reading as there are alot of new USR's and tweaks to existing rules and I'm sure it will take some time getting used to the new wound allocation rules!

However, I'm very much reassured that players will be able to get their heads around the new rules within the next few weeks as far as I'm concerned 5th edition was a blast but its over and done with now and time to move on!

There are 3 aspects of the game currently that give me pause for thought and that I would consider changing. The first is the deployment of terrain by players (I'm not talking fortifications here!) All previous X Legion tournaments have used pre placed terrain on the boards and I think it will add an unneccessary and time consuming step to the tournament process therefore I'm proposing to continue using pre-positioned scenary and work out a mechanic whereby fortifications can be used. The easiest will probably be the ability to place your fortification wherever you like in accordance with the new rules and if you need to remove a piece of terrain from the board to allow it to 'fit' - get me over and I'll decide to either remove the terrain piece for the duration of that game or I'll put it somewhere else I see fitting - my decision!

The second and third aspects are the mysterious terrain and mysterious objectives rules. The reason I'm baulking at including these rules is that the X Legion tournaments have always used alot of terrain to promote tactical gameplay but adding the mystrerious rules will take more time and adds a random element of buff or disadvantage that it doesn't sit well with me for the tournament format.

The same goes with mysterious objectives - the buffs or disadvantages could really swing a game through nothing more than randomness which seems unneccessary to me for a tournament setting (I've even designed scenarios like these myself for the master strat tournaments but decided not to use them because they were too unbalancing). The problem being you have no control over what unit gets what buff or nerf - it can lead to very broken units or some types of units/armies suffering more than others which again seems inherently unfair to me.

So opinions on the above would be very welcome. My initial thought is to adopt the new rules pretty much wholesale and see how it goes as none of us have a clue at the moment and I can make ammendments in the future if and when necessary.

So what all this boils down to is: seenings the vast majority of players seem keen to go with 6th edition we'll be using 6th edition rules!

If anyone has any further concerns or complaints about this - please do not hesitate to contact me via pm asap and I'll sort something out to make you happy!

Hope this helps and everyone is happy with this!

I'll get working on an updated tournament rules and information pack but we will still be using 2500 point armies and we will be following the FOC (Force Organization Charts) from the 6th ed rulebook with everything that entails - allies and all!

Mal

[jedimasterwiggy]

40k is dead................Long live 40k!

My better half and I have been also looking heavily through the book and I am loving the humour, examples, pictures of drinking in the pub and oh yes, the rules. Gone through the FAQ's too and had a look around on warseer to see which parts of the sky are falling as well as letting me see the bits that other people have seen that I hadn't (poison changes for monstrous creatures).
Glad to hear we are all stepping into the unknown together and I'm sure we can drive Mal slightly mad by about 3pm on Saturday with our questions of "how does this work?"
For my part I would say the following points.
1) Terrain placement - all the rulesbooks have had suggested ways of placing terrain, which are not used at tournaments for time consuming and balance reasons. No need to include that now. Continue as normal.
2) Objectives - There is an element of random to this chart but I would say that objectives are a focus of a battle and therefore there should be a reward for focusing on this. As such put them in and pray that you roll 'anything but a 1'
3) Mysterious Terrain - Having played a reasonable amount of 8th edition fantasy, I personally feel that mysterious terrain isn't right for 'competitive play.' There are simply too many different things that can happen and while bonuses are good for some, no one likes losing models to the scenery for dangerous terrain and even less so for the random stuff. Objectives you at least know your taking the risk of focusing on the mission.....the risk of entering every forest will detract from a speedy game and one where scenery is a welcomed part of the table.
Having said that, if 1 or 2 pieces were clearly marked as mysterious or archeotech on that table for the whole tournament I'd live with it for the sense of testing/horrible accidents/excuse for losing. Just make this the exception for terrain not the norm.

My own one to open up to the group
4) Power weapons - So Axes and swords are now hugely different (so the world says). Is there to be a ruling saying that we use WYSIWYG for the weapon being held or can people write on their list, what version of power weapon their guy is coming to battle with?

The big games will give us plenty of time to play and discuss the points that come up, check books and read FAQs (which we're gonna need!!!!!) so I hope we get to embrace as much as possible.

Here's to an awesome weekend of testing out the game we love and maybe winning 4 games, back to back

Wiggy

[Malchek]

Sage words again thank you wiggy I fear my objectivity may almost be lost on mysterious objectives already tho!?!?!?!? lol The more I read them the more I hate them but I'm happy to go along with a majority decision!

As for power weapons I personally think wysiwyg and I wouldn't be happy with people converting their models for advantage either as whilst I'm sure alot of people are out their thinking this or that sucks - I equally don't want players changing their power weapon from a sword to something else or vice versa when we don't know what is intended (I'm sure there will be options with pts price variations in the 6th ed codexes - the rest of us will have to suck it up till then).

Hopefully not too draconion!!! lol

As usual I won't be too stringent with round timings day 1 so everyone can ease into it all gently and have plenty of time to work things through!

Mal

[Avatar111x]

I have but one point to make ...

WHAT HAVE THE REMORSELESS B**TARDS DONE TO MY HARLEQUIN'S VEIL OF TEARS?!?!?!?!?!?

I'm off to create a little veil of tears of my own.

[Lord Cook]

Fully support the move to make the tournament 6th edition. Also, I agree that we shouldn't use mysterious terrain. It's clearly labelled as optional anyway, and if you want a strict rules reason why not to use them, I could remind you that you don't actually have any forests, rivers, pools or lakes.


My poor, beloved Hydras. Never shall we see you again...

[GiraffeX]

I havent picked my copy of 6th up yet but from reading tons on the net over the last few days I agree with the what everyone else has said.

I have already modelled power axes and swords on my minis but I've no idea if they will cost different points, Mal would you be ok if I run them as wysiwyg as this is a new army for me and I dont have any other spare minis if I have to change points round (you already have my army list so wont be changing it lol). Or if you could confirm if they cost the same that would be great as mine are mostly all the same unit type should be easy

On veil of tears I believe there are two different version between the Eldar and Dark Eldar FaQ's from what I've read most people think the Dark Eldar one is wrong.

[Murrithius]

Oops. I've always changed axes to swords as I have never liked the aesthetics of axes as weapons. I also guess my Ultras honours guard will never see the light of day either now!

Have I missed something Adam? Why will your Hydras disappear?

[Lord Cook]

Hydras have Skyfire, allowing them to fire at flyers using normal Bs. But against everything except flyers, skimmers, and flying MCs, they now fire at Bs1. So 6's to hit, with re-rolls. Congratulations all ye rhino-borne players.

Not to fear, other options have presented themselves.