How times change

[AndrewGPaul]

I got my hands on a copy of White Dwarf presents: Warhammer 40,000 Battles, a compilation of White Dwarf articles for 2nd edition 40k (rules for Adeptus Arbites, Razorbacks and bunkers, as well as a selection of battle reports). I had a quick read through the battle report used as the introduction to 2nd edition 40k; Andy Chambers' Blood ANgels against Jervis Johnson's Orks. With those two participants, the conclusion is obvious, but it was still an interesting read.

Firstly, the choice of armies. on Andy's side, we have the army commander - Brother-Captain Erasmus Tycho, looking like this. He chose a captain, then went on to select the rest of the army, leaving the selection of his wargear until the end when he knew how many points he had left. As it turned out, he had no points left, so Tycho took to the field equipped with ... a bolter.

Other interesting choices were a squad of Terminators in a Rhino, and a Dreadnought, included for heavy support, but also because it was the latest toy.

In total, he had a Captain, a Tactical Squad, a Devastator Squad, a Terminator Squad in a Rhino and a Dreadnought. 26 Marines and 2 vehicles for 1,500 points.

Notably, despite the battle being a "1,500 point" game, Andy's army list came in at 1,522 points, so the Orks got some extra points for wargear cards.

On the Ork side, Jervis' army was basically a matter of "what do I have that's painted", with some very small mobs by today's standard; all the Boyz mobs were of ten models, or fewer. The Nobz mob consisted of five models. The venerable old battlewagon kit makes an appearance (one of its last, IIRC). He had 60-70 Orks, a Dreadnought and a Battlewagon.

On to the battle; the missions were Dawn Raid for the Marines (get a squad or vehicle into the enemy's deployment zone) and Assassinate for the Orks (kill the enemy commander). Since there were no bunkers, it was a standard 4-turn game.

The Marines started well, with the Dreadnought on the left flank shooting down its Ork counterpart with its multi-melta, and the Terminators moving (nearly) into position in some rocks. Unfortunately, it went a little downhill in the next few turns; the Terminators lost two of their number to Ork fire, and importantly, Captain Tycho was killed by the Ork Weirdboy's psychic bolt in turn two. Some rather disastrous shooting from the Marines ensued for a couple of turns, but in the end, they managed to eke out a win; 9VPs to 8 after the entire Ork army failed to finish off the Terminators.

Compared to today's games, the differences were interesting. After reading the "6x4 is no longer practical" thread, this game featured two relatively tiny armies duking it out on an 8' x 4' board, and it ended up supplying the backstory to one of the current special characters. The attitude to army selection also mirros mine (or perhaps, that's where I took my inspiration); army selection based at least partly on "what's painted?" and "what looks cool?" and not worrying unduly if you go over the limit. Also, I'd forgotten about Andy Chambers' crazy 90s hair.

[Memnon]

Ah, I remember reading that very battle report many moons ago! Classic GW, sadly lost to time... Interesting that modern Ork armies probably feature less than 70 Orks in 1500 point games (my 1k has 30) but modern Marines would be significantly bigger than a couple of squads, how times change indeed! It was nice to read about the missions as well, I often forget how cool 2nd edition objectives were, secretly drawn mission cards with differing objectives. Todays games are a bit predictable (big fight around the objectives or big fight in the middle). In fact I might dig out my old cards and try it in my next game if they don't include it in 6th!

Thanks for the memories!

Memnon

[Lantern]

I remember that book well. My favourite battle was one of Space Wolves versus Eldar, the best moment if which was when the Eldar player cast Eldritch Storm INSIDE a bunker full of marines. Normally, the marines would be pushed aside by the spell, but as they were in a bunker, they were effectively pinned against the buildings inner walls - genius, and an example of how fun the game can be when played to its original intention, an enjoyable past time among friends. I should also add, my favourite battles always involved Jervis and Andy Chambers, they were just always enjoyable reads.

[Loopstah]

I remember buying that when it came out. Makes me feel old. Secret mission objectives were a load of fun.

[Scaryscarymushroom]

On to the battle; the missions were Dawn Raid for the Marines (get a squad or vehicle into the enemy's deployment zone) and Assassinate for the Orks (kill the enemy commander). Since there were no bunkers, it was a standard 4-turn game.

The objectives sound like Malifaux!

I love a lot of the old rules supplements and batreps. 2nd edition is a little before my time, but I have some of the codices and there are some really interesting illustrations in there. One of my favorite pictures from the Space Wolves codex was a pic of Warboss Ghazghkull Thraka. Another ork in the picture is dressed in military fatigues! As if he were a big green guardsman!

[AndrewGPaul]

Probably a Blood Axe Nob or warboss.

IIRC, the missions were:

Engage and Destroy - kill things.
Dawn Raid - get into the enemy's deployment zone.
Take and Hold - hold an objective in the centre of the table
The Assassins - kill the enemy commander.

Dark Millennium added two more:
Guerilla War! - kill models in hand to hand combat. Secondary mission - destroy or disable enemy vehicles in your deployment zone.
Witch Hunt - as per The Assassins, only with the enemy's most powerful psyker. Secondary mission - take out the enemy's characters.

And there were the two Bunker assault missions, which had one side defending the bunkers while the enemy had to capture or destroy them. These missions increased the turn limit by 2 turns.

Codex: Tyranids had three special missions for the Tyranids;
Terrorise - force the enemy to fail morale checks. Secondary mission - kill their characters.
The Trap - have Tyranid units between enemy units and their board edge at the end of the game. In this mission, Tyranid models will randomly deploy on their side of the board or on either flank. In addition, they may begin the game hidden and on overwatch.
Tyranid Attack - annihilate the enemy completely in six turns. Destroyed Tyranid models may re-enter the battle as new broods. Effectively the Tyranid player has infinite resources. If the enemy have any models at all left alive at the end of the game, they win.

[Inquisitor D'selinas]

Great thread!
Just for the sake of completeness there was also the very last mission card, High Ground, from White Dwarf 194 (or 193 can't remember). Basically you were charged with capturing the three highest points on the battlefield with bonus victory points awarded if it were done with troopers armed with heavy weapons.

But going back to the original post, you're describing the Angels of Death battle report which also appeared in White Dwarf 166, my first ever issue! It has always had a place in my nerdy heart as it was in many ways responsible for me getting involved in the hobby and staying with it still some nineteen years later.

A couple of years back my gaming group made the decision to dump the gloominess of 5th Ed and return to the light of 2nd edition, and we've never regretted it.

[Angelwing]

Good book that. I have er, 4 of those battle bunkers....
I have all the mission cards from WD, dark millennium and boxset. I might bring those out again. Just substitute the old 'VP' for current 'KP' and off we go!

[DeviantApostle]

I remember an old 2e batrep where a Librarian won the game by teleporting 48" across the board after the rest of the Space Marines were nearly wiped out. Can you imagine the rage if that were possible now?

[ChaplainCharlie]

Yes, the rage if a unit had a 30" move that was unstoppable unless the models were tied to combat. Or a 36" move also unstoppable unless immobilized...

The rage if that was commonplace and could be used to capture objectives on the last turn and win games...

[Abaraxas]

The Tycho bat rep was in the first WD I ever got...the "battles" compilation is the one 2nd ed book I dont have

[Banville]

Wasn't there a "Hold the Line" mission, too? Your units were deployed in a corridor across the middle of the table and your opponent got points for getting their units off the other board edge?

You had to include bunkers and the like in the central portion.

Those old missions rocked. Funny how a mechanic as simple as having players fight for their own secret objective can completely change the game - for the better in my opinion!

[AndrewGPaul]

Yes, I mentioned that one;

"And there were the two Bunker assault missions, which had one side defending the bunkers while the enemy had to capture or destroy them. These missions increased the turn limit by 2 turns."

I just didn't have access to the card to check the names.

The missions weren't secret, though. They were chosen at random, but revealed before the game began.

ChaplainCharlie, the psychic power DevianApostle mentions could always be nullified - even if the opponent had no psykers, IIRC.

[DeviantApostle]

Yes, the rage if a unit had a 30" move that was unstoppable unless the models were tied to combat. Or a 36" move also unstoppable unless immobilized...

The rage if that was commonplace and could be used to capture objectives on the last turn and win games...

LOL good one.

36" isn't 48" and it takes a skimmer to do that, which is quite a bit easeir to get line of sight shoot and, in many cases, kill compared to a single character (remembering back then, Terminators were on 25mm bases). Also, you can stop a last minute contest, all models have to stop an inch away from other models so it's possible to block. I'd also note that random game length goes a ways to preventing this type of win. Anything that isn't a skimmer that can do that is fairly random, which is a nice balancer.

You could nullify a Psyker in 2e, which was why you took a Level 4. The problem then became character proliferation and 'cheap wins' which happened a bit more often than they do in 5e. You know how everyone is yelling about tanks and MSU now? Back then it was cries of 'characterhammer' and, amusingly, the desire to see more of your bog standard troops on the table.

Don't get me wrong, 2e was and remains a great game, I have tons of fond memories. Heck, I still have my old DA beakies around here somewhere. I really miss universal wargear. But sometimes it was crazy and it did have problems. Nice to look back on all that with 6e on the way... the more things change...

[Gorbad Ironclaw]

Back then it was cries of 'characterhammer' and, amusingly, the desire to see more of your bog standard troops on the table.

I think the ironic thing is that modern characters generally will kill way more enemy models than their 2nd counterparts did. At least if you were smart about it.

It does bring back fond memories. I had a lot of fun playing 2nd and I'm still tempted to teach my fiancée to play it, but we will probably stick to playing Infinity.

Edit: It must be one of the only 2nd books I don't have at least one copy off. Kind a makes me want to get it now. It's fun seeing the origins of a lot of modern stuff, like special characters (or the WS4/BS2 of Orks!, anyone remember that battle report?) and frankly I liked the scale of things much better then.

[Sheena Easton]

One of many classic battle reports. The games between Andy and Jervis were always a great read. I believe Jervis lost all but one!

I loved that the battles printed in White Dwarf in those days were used to enrich the background, usually by making special characters from models that died in turn 2 such as Tycho and Azhag (who died to a Knights Panther Champion - in rage a heavily wounded Skullmuncha ripped the head off the Bright Wizard before the horses kicked it to death...)

My favourite 2nd Ed battle report was the Tyranid Attack vs Eldar & IG

I remember an old 2e batrep where a Librarian won the game by teleporting 48" across the board after the rest of the Space Marines were nearly wiped out. Can you imagine the rage if that were possible now?

I don't remember that one, but I do remember one where the Librarian tried a similar trick with the Gateway power but had to move within range.... and got subsequently reduced to a messy stain by the overwatching Deathskulls and Snakebites

[RTB01]

The fact that Tycho got zapped by the weirdboy and this worked into fluff is fantastic - along with classic things like the Piscina V campaign - not enough of this happens anymore in my opinion. Too much focus on spam and winning - unless that's just the forums?...

[Toadius80]

I have many fond memories of 2nd :-)
A updated version that works with current codexes would be great. The rules where more fun back then.

A note about modern characters being able to kill more now. Your joking right? A quick example, assassins. Vindicar had 2 shots per turn, evisor was pure evil, had a hefty number of attacks and added additional 1 attack per wound caused in previous turn. Guns had more shots. Plasma pistols for example between 0-3 per turn and assault cannons 0-9 shots!

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[Gorbad Ironclaw]

A note about modern characters being able to kill more now. Your joking right? A quick example, assassins. Vindicar had 2 shots per turn, evisor was pure evil, had a hefty number of attacks and added additional 1 attack per wound caused in previous turn. Guns had more shots. Plasma pistols for example between 0-3 per turn and assault cannons 0-9 shots!

Not really. Because close combat worked differently. Since you can only kill models you were in base contact with the odds of seeing characters slaughter hordes of troops every turn was pretty slim. Now, they would often make a very messy stain of any grunt they were fighting but once you have killed the model once the rest doesn't really matter. How many models does combat characters routinely kill these days? For most it's a bad round if they don't kill a small handful.
Characters were good, but there were so many destructive things in 2nd. And as you said, many guns were vastly more powerful than they are today so despite the multiple saves (improved after you were only allowed one field save) chewing up characters at range was far from impossible.

I don't think you could make a version of 2nd that would work with current lists, at least not without a huge rewrite and at that point you might as well not bother trying and just use the old lists and write new rules for any additions.

[Inquisitor D'selinas]

I have many fond memories of 2nd :-)
A updated version that works with current codexes would be great. The rules where more fun back then.

A note about modern characters being able to kill more now. Your joking right? A quick example, assassins. Vindicar had 2 shots per turn, evisor was pure evil, had a hefty number of attacks and added additional 1 attack per wound caused in previous turn. Guns had more shots. Plasma pistols for example between 0-3 per turn and assault cannons 0-9 shots!

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Well, first off the whilst the Vindicare did have two shots per turn, his weapon wasn't powerful enough to drop even an Imperial Guard Colonel in one hit, you needed to use his special ammo and he only had one each of them per battle.
As for the Eversor, he had a maximum of five attacks and, as with everything else in 2nd Ed, could only kill what was in base contact. Unlike the modern game where characters can slaughter whole units despite being in base contact with one model. He did gain +1WS per opponent if he faced multiple attackers.
Don't get me wrong the Assassins where deadly opponents but hardly the invincible bogeymen people made them out to be.

As for guns having more shots, even the humble lasgun has the ability to fire twice in 5th, it's 2nd Ed counterpart could only ever fire once, and today's Imperial Guard can take a twenty shot Punisher Cannon!