Blood of Aenarion Question

[The bearded one]

I'm pretty sure they figured out they were a race in decline during their second golden age, 1500'ish years of plenty, during which time some even thought the dark elves had simply faded away. If we go back to real-world demographics, the better-off countries (generally "the western world") have lower birthrates than poorer countries, such as in the african continent; http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._countries.PNG paradoxically enough though, in the richer countries birthrates tend to decline during economic downturns, while poorer countries have higher birthrates. Then again infant mortality rates are higher in poorer countries, and so of the many children not all make it to adulthood. As I am not very knowledgable on the subject, I'll just venture a guess that it is simply a 'cultural thing', in that it is usual for people in western countries to have a handful of kids, 2-3, because that is the general mindset, but also because almost all kids survive, so having a dozen is really expensive. This may be similar for the high elves, along with a slower path where a couple takes its time before having children, and after having a few and after these have grown up and moved out they feel no need to have some more children even though they have many centuries of their lifespan still ahead.

[Craze_b0i]

Do we do something about the declining population in Europe, the US and Japan?
We know there are too many pensioners and not enough births, yet there aren't any serious measures taken to encourage couples to have more children.

Well for one thing the US and Europe has a regular influx of migrants which offsets the fact natives are having fewer babies. HE don't have that. I don't know all the stats for Europe/USA but here in UK the population is still rising due to this reason.

Also for many decades in UK we have also had something called 'child benefit' which is money paid to parents with kids regardless of whether they are rich or poor (though now they are talking of stopping it for the uber-rich). Though in the case of the UK population this measure is probably not needed right now for the reason already given above.

Thirdly there is my point that the HE are fighting a centuries long war of national survival. Whereas in USA, Europe and Japan this is simply not the case. And even if it were we have moved well beyond the point where wars are settled by use of mass manpower. Armies today are all about high-tech specialized forces, plus long ranged missiles.

[The bearded one]

And even if it were we have moved well beyond the point where wars are settled by use of mass manpower. Armies today are all about high-tech specialized forces, plus long ranged missiles.

Yeah, funny how that one turned out; the past several thousand years we moved from fairly small armies, to forces of some thousands and well-trained armies, and then towards 'levée en masse' from the french revolution onwards, because quantity simply overwhelmed a small professional force and when one faction went for a massed army, the other was forced to as well. Then we figured that wasn't such a good idea so more or less unilaterally went for small, professional armies. I have the feeling if one side decided to go for a mass army again, everybody else would have little option but to do the same (or bomb them to hell).

But.. that's off topic, just found it a funny development. The high elves do utilise a form of levée en masse with their militia troops, while the dark elves appear to be warriors at heart so are almost universally "professional" warriors anyway. I suspect the high elves are still stuck in the mindset of their second golden age. During which phoenix king was that again? The scholar and the poet kings, right?

[Naanomi]

I suspect that one factor of lower birth rates (not the only factor, mind you, or even the most important) is the ennui of a long life. "I'm busy starting my new painting career, lets think about starting our family next century". Families are probably small, and seem even more so because there are probably very large gaps between children.

I doubt many elven children have siblings who were children at the same time they were. Heck, I doubt that there were many other elves that were children at the same time in all but the largest communities: elven children likely grow up in a world of adults; making me doubt they even have a real concept of 'childhood' how the modern world sees it. They are probably 'adults in training', and 'childish lay' and 'expected social immaturity' isn't part of their society.

[The bearded one]

Once they got rid of the pleasure cults, their population growth went to hell

[Voodoo1]

I wonder if all that magic they have, makes them shoot blanks.

And can Elves cross breed with other races? Is there half elves running around the Empire and Bretonnia?

[Arnizipal]

Nah, half-breeds aren't a part of Warhammer anymore (except for half-vampires it seems).
There used to be half-Orcs, but they haven't been seen in decades.

[Urgat]

I have the feeling if one side decided to go for a mass army again, everybody else would have little option but to do the same (or bomb them to hell).

Since bombing to hell is actually the current way to deal with enemy troops, I have a feeling that if someone decided to go for mass army again, after one war, nobody would ever decide to try it again

[The bearded one]

Since bombing to hell is actually the current way to deal with enemy troops, I have a feeling that if someone decided to go for mass army again, after one war, nobody would ever decide to try it again

didn't stop them in WW2

[Urgat]

Well, it seems it did since it's the last time you really saw massed infantry

[The bearded one]

Well, it seems it did since it's the last time you really saw massed infantry

It wasn't really the bombing that stopped them, sheer attrition of manpower more likely, particularly in the case of russia.

[Craze_b0i]

Mass mobilisation was certainly a big part of WW2, though equally so mass production of tanks and aircraft. But since then things have certainly moved on somewhat. If, god forbid, USA and China ever went to war their armies would never get close to each other, it would all be done with missiles.

[Urgat]

Or orbital ion canons

[Craze_b0i]

Actually thinking about it the 'dying race' fluff I read was in 4th edition. But I can't seem to find it mentioned in the present book, all I see is a note that the High Elf civilisation has declined. So do we know that this still applies?

[Arnizipal]

Because it hasn't been outright contradicted

[Urgat]

Well, the fact is, a strong example of the HE going down was their inability to wake the dragons anymore... well good news, they all woke up with their last book, it seems to me!

[The bearded one]

I'm quite sure the current high elf armybook says they are a dying race, during their second golden age under the scholar and poet phoenix kings, and that the number of births has dropped. I'll look it up.

Edit: page 27, second to last paragraph on the lower right.

[Soundwave]

Yeah does not make much sense as dark elves are banging on very well(6pnt warriors) when all the civil war depleted both sides beyond repair?

[ryng_sting]

It doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? Allow that the DE have a comparatively high birth rate, being the wanton, threatened lot that they are. But that also means allowing that a good chunk of their populace (which also doubles as their army) is going to be pregnant at any one time, with that slow Elven gestation period...

[Arnizipal]

It doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? Allow that the DE have a comparatively high birth rate, being the wanton, threatened lot that they are. But that also means allowing that a good chunk of their populace (which also doubles as their army) is going to be pregnant at any one time, with that slow Elven gestation period...

Gav posted on his blog that the Dark Elves shouldn't be looked at as a society that would work in real life.
Each writer that mentions them is free to make up numbers and events on the spot.