2500 Empire tourny

[EcoWarrior]

Fantasy Army: Empire

2500 Pts - Empire Roster
Wizard Lord
1 Battle Wizard Lord, (General; Level 4 Upgrade; Hand Weapon)
1 Dispel Scroll

Master Engineer
1 Master Engineer, (Hand Weapon)
1 Master Engineer, (Hand Weapon)

Captain of the Empire
(Battle Standard Bearer), Barding; Hand Weapon; Full Plate Armor; Shield; Battle Standard Bearer)
1 Warhorse
Talisman of Preservation,

Warrior Priest
1 Warrior Priest, (Battle Prayers; Hand Weapon; Heavy Armour; shield)


State Troops
49 Swordsmen, (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Shield)
5 [Det] Archers (Hand Weapon; Bow; Skirmishers)

Knightly Orders
9 Knights of the Inner Circle, 245 pts (Musician; Standard Bearer; Barding; Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Full Plate Armor)
9 Warhorse
Banner of Eternal flame

Greatswords
39 Greatswords, Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Full Plate Armor; Stubborn)
20 [Det] Halberdiers (Hand Weapon; Halberd; Light Armour)

Pistoliers
5 Pistoliers, brace of pistols

War Engines
1 Helblaster Volley Gun,

1 Helblaster Volley Gun,

1 Great Cannon,

1 Great Cannon,

Celestial Hurricanum
1 Celestial Hurricanum, (Chariot; Large Target; Swiftstride)
=2498

The plan:
wizard lord will buff/cast MM at anything ethereal because i lack magiv weapons in my army apart from the unit with warrior priest can have soul fire but i wont hold my breath for that. Main focus will be wild form on swordsmen, Sw4, S4 and T4 swordsmen (thumbs up). they will be in 5x10 for points denial also.
Each engineer sits at either side with a hellblaster and a cannon; shooting the cannon unit they get close then use his BS4 on the hellblaster/re rolls if needed to rip through some units softening them up for my infantry.
The swordsmen, now i know alot of people think spears are the way to go but i disagree... dont undersetimate the WS4 6+ parry (hopefully they will be steadfast).
The greatswords with warrior priest for the hatred buff, obvious really what they are for. The halberdier detachment are going to be for flank support but also if they get charge instead of my greatswords they will be stubborn so that should hold a unit in place for a turn.
The archer detachments will be for protecting warmachines + annoyance
Knights with bsb will focus on getting a flank charge or charging stuff with regen. The reason they have greatweapons is because im I3; i will probably strike last against most things worth charging into. Also buffing the bsb if possible in combat for dmg + attacks. I did think about changing these for demigryphs but 1) i hate the model 2) if i had them they would be in unit of 4's for maximum attacks making them a wider target, also taking up more deployment area. I would possibly take them but i would need more proof they work better than knights.
Celestial Hurriderp will sit behind/to the side or the 2 main units giving them +1 to hit also for a supporting flank charge with those S5 impact hits if need be.

What do you guys think? anything i should change or add ?

I recently just swapped out 1 unit of x5 archers for x5 pistoliers + the extra points i had spare. If you think this was a bad move please tell me. But i think Been able to march with no shooting penilty for moving 2 shots each armor piercing can be pretty annoying. Also it is perfect to catch up to flyers that aim to take out my artillery. 10 shots at a unit of flyers; even some of the best like peggi knights will get blown away by these in a turn of shooting. I was thinking outriders but haveto move or fire makes it so unreliable + i dont know were i would find the extra 20 points to swap the pistoliers for outriders

[mike20]

Just a thought...Swordsman cost 40% more than spearmen. , so you could have 70 spears, or perhaps only 50 and make up those points for outriders.

[Jim]

All looks pretty solid - although a couple of points:

1) Are you intending to take Lore of Beasts on your level 4? The sig spell is ace but overall I think Shadow/Life/Light offers more
2) The Pistoliers are not going to blow anyone away With only BS 3 and an automatic -1 for Multiple Shots they are at best hitting on 5's and unless you are practically touching your target (ie within short range) its usually 6's...Which is sad as I like the idea of them but a unit of well positioned Outriders will do the same job for similar points much, much better...
3) Relying on Wizards LD as General (is it 8 or 9?) & with the BSB off with your Knights could leave your 2 main infantry blocks running for the hills from a panic check gone bad or unlucky breaktest...
4) I like Swordsmen too!... Although losing the protection for an extra 20 Spearmen bodies is tempting (but I can't be bothered to paint 70 more State Troops!!!)

Just my opinion though!

Jim

[mike20]

Swords are good defensive, but once you start buffing yuor troops then those spears start closing the gap, especially at st,t 4 the extra rank at that point doesnt hurt either. plus if you have a WP with them they can benefit from a 5+ ward in combat, which negates parrys usefulness anyways. But go with what you think is best.


by switching the swords to spears you save 100pts. With that you can get those outriders, and upgrade a WP to an archlector and get that LD 9. Also add the standard of discipline to the GS and throw the Arch lector in there for a cool Ld10 alla round. I would also keep the BSB on foot with your infantry. If you have the points throw in another 5man archer det. and another knight to round it off. This gives you a much stronger core, witha a re-rolloable Ld 10 and giving those swords that much beloved HATE. The spears, with some buffs will do just fine against most. tack on an en. shield on the BSB for a 2+/4++ and he will do fine.

Cheers

[EcoWarrior]

2500 Pts - Empire Roster
Arch Lector
1 Arch Lector, (Battle Prayers; General; Hand Weapon; Heavy Armour)
1 Enchanted Shield
1 Talisman of Preservation

Wizard Lord
1 Battle Wizard Lord, (Level 4 Upgrade; Hand Weapon)
1 Dispel Scroll
1 The Lore of Shadow
1 Crown of command

Master Engineer
1 Master Engineer, (Hand Weapon)
1 Master Engineer, (Hand Weapon)

Captain of the Empire
1 (Battle Standard Bearer), (Hold the Line; Hand Weapon; Shield; Battle Standard Bearer)
1 Armor of Meteoric Iron

Knightly Orders
10 Knights of the Inner Circle, 270 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Barding; Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Full Plate Armor)
10 Warhorse

War Engines
1 Helblaster Volley Gun,

1 Helblaster Volley Gun,

1 Great Cannon,

1 Great Cannon,

Celestial Hurricanum
1 Celestial Hurricanum, (Chariot; Large Target; Swiftstride)

State Troops
55 Spearmen, (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Spear; Light Armour)
5 [Det] Archers (Hand Weapon; Bow; Skirmishers)
5 [Det] Archers (Hand Weapon; Bow; Skirmishers)

Outriders
5 Outriders, 105 pts (Hand Weapon; Repeater Handgun; Light Armour; Fast Cavalry)
5 Warhorse

Greatswords
34 Greatswords, 394 pts (Always Strikes Last; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Full Plate Armor; Stubborn)
[Det] 15 Spearmen

This is the new list i have from your feedback. I traded out the swordsmen for spearmen for the extra points, but i bumped them, up to 55. (gave my wizard crown of command to make the stubborn, because i couldent find a way to put it on my BSB for them, i do not want to rely on steadfast due to how squishy i am, i will rely on miasma debuff to thier WS to stay alive a bit longer/ Str debuff)
I had to make the greatswords size 34 with the arch lector bumping it to a round 35 stubborn unit. I had to drop the halberdiers to spearmen down to 15 because of poiints + the decreasing size of GS's. Its still big enough to take a few wounds and hold its ground!
I took the BSB off his pony and put him in the spearmen unit which will be close enough to the Arch Lector to get the inspiring presence bonus. I gave him Meatioric armor for the 1+ save 6+ ward which is crappy ward but i thought its that or 4+ armor 4+ward (still able to change them out for the exact same amount of points if needed.
I added another squad of archers to fill up the core units points and for the extra unit of annoying homeless people with bows
Managed to fit the outriders in which i will place exacly 21/23" away from my target unit on setup so i dare him to charge if hes stupid but also to give me a quick first round of shoosting. Obviously be a little further away from stuff with bigger charge distances.
I had to take the Talisman of preservation off the BSB to give to my warrior priest. along with the enchanted shield so he is a bit harder to take down. 3+/4++
I decided to go with Lore of shadow which i was tempted to do in the first place. I will focus on decreasing WS and toughness if possible. Which i why i cant free up dice for the warrior priests. I dont know how many dice im going to get so i cant rely on getting thier buffs.
I know people say but your warrior priest can buff the unit for 5++... yes but i have other core magic spells i want to use e.g. debuff's which imo win the game. I'm using him for his cheap hatred+Ld for my army also if need be he can give them flaming attacks for regen hunting)

What do you guys think now ?

[EcoWarrior]

Do you think its worth having IC knights; think about it, if im striking last with +2 str is it worth spending the point on more str? My ideal situation for them wont be to run into some super heavy unit but medium to light infantry because of how unreliable they are on hitting.

[Morax]

IC knights are either kept small to fit into a flank and carry a flaming banner for monster hunting, or get fielded large to be a main line unit. In both instances it helps to have that extra point of strength. Now when I say,"kept small" I'm talking 5-6. Fielded 3x2 these can be extremely useful knight darts to get some high strength attacks in the flank where that -1AS doesn't hurt so much. Fielded large would therefore mean anything larger than 6. At that size they should have some warrior priest support to help them not waste those high strength attacks. This can come in the form of a dedicated warrior priest in the unit or a popemobile kept nearby, possible set up for a supporting charge for some impact hits.

You may want to trim the unit down and fit in a shooting unit like a second unit of outriders instead of the extra 4 knights. Just an idea.