Refused Centre

[BlackPawl]

be done with DE, HE and WE, as well as possibly Empire and Skaven.

I don't think it can work very well for my skaven. First of all I will try to get the most of my units into the genreal ld radius AND because most of all I really need my complete deploment zone to drop all my units (especially if I go slaves heavy).

[SimaoSegunda]

Obviously, it won't work well for every build of every army, but if you bear it in mind as a tactic when you pick your army list, then you can make it work, I think. The main advantage is that nobody expects it. To put it another way, most enemy stratagies are based around a standard deployment setup, with maybe some provision for encountering a "refused flank" deployment. The advantage comes in you knowing how you're going to deploy, and having an idea about how s/he will deploy to face you, while denying your opponent that same provision.

[Soundwave]

Ha funny stuff i am a woc tzeentch horder and play orcs all the time they are brutal bloody affairs i find not worrying about tactics to much although flanking will help(no parry saves from flanks) just smash into him with a massive unit of savage orc big uns maybe razor standard that will always hurt and even things out a little.

[Banville]

Didn't Hannibal do this at Lake Trasimene and wipe out an entire Legion?

I've done this with my Bretonnians with a fair degree of success against armies with a small number of units. What I find is key to it working is to have your centre pretty light but not completely useless. For example, a block of 40 bowmen flanked by two Trebuchets holding the centre can't be ignored but neither are they the core of a Bretonnian force. If my opponent simply wheels his army and ignores them he'll get shot to pieces. Similarly, a unit without significant numbers and combat res will be statically beaten by the block of peasant archers. And if he does commit a ranked-up, combat-orientated unit to deal with my soft centre it'll be overkill on his part and remove a considerable chunk from his main force.

[Lord Solar Plexus]

Didn't Hannibal do this at Lake Trasimene and wipe out an entire Legion?

More likely Cannae. Lake T was an encirclement but also an ambush.

[oldWitheredCorpse]

Yes, Cannae was studied over and over again thousands of years after it happened. Hannibal had a rather weak center that baited the Romans, while his strongest troops were destroying the flanks of them. Eventually the flanks collapsed and the Romans were surrounded.

Prior to this battle, the Romans were slowly weakening Hannibal by hiding in the cities and using diplomacy to limit the number of local allies Hannibal could gain. After a few years, the people of Rome and the cockiest senators wanted to beat Hannibal on the field - the massacre of Cannae was the result. After that defeat, the Romans went back to refusing to engage, and eventually Hannibal had to return to Carthage.

[Soundwave]

Also another weakness in woc is the general lack of inability to shoot whilst being a prodominate infantry based design.With that in mind try flying killer lords on wyverns big spiders anything with a stomp and do not leave home without doomdivers to make mess of knights!

[Lord Solar Plexus]

Prior to this battle, the Romans were slowly weakening Hannibal by hiding in the cities and using diplomacy to limit the number of local allies Hannibal could gain. After a few years, the people of Rome and the cockiest senators wanted to beat Hannibal on the field - the massacre of Cannae was the result. After that defeat, the Romans went back to refusing to engage, and eventually Hannibal had to return to Carthage.

I hope you're not advertising that as a Fantasy strategy!

[Stained_Steel]

totally, if you make sure your opponent has no friends. maybe hell run home crying and you win!!!

[Jezbot]

The strategy is basically a specific variation on the general concept of concentration of force. That is, you gain advantage by achieving a local concentration of force, which your opponent lacks because he has troops committed elsewhere. In this case the idea is to bait your enemy into over-committing troops to the centre of his line, while you focus on each flank and achieve local superiority in each of those.

Basically, I see the strategy relying on a few factors;
1) Sufficient space so that there's room to have three distinct areas of combat. Obviously the board is going to be 6x4, but the armies deployed into that space vary greatly by point size. Basically this idea is more practical at lower points values.
2) A sufficiently cunning plan to trick the enemy into over-deployment in his centre. I could see this being achieved by placing a dummy unit in the centre that appears more potent than it is, or by deploying mobile units that could then move out to the flanks in the first turn.
3) A sufficiently immobile enemy. There's no point in tricking your opponent in deployment if he can quickly shift his forces into the areas where you want to achieve superiority. The strategy would work best where the enemy is dependant on one or two large infantry blocks that can be left in the centre, that would take so long to shift to the flanks that your troops have already won there.
4) Sufficent force concentration. Local superiority only matters if you can bring all those troops into the fight in that area. So smaller, more elite troops would definitely be the go, so you can reliably charge multiple units against single enemy units, attacking the front and the flanks.

[DeathlessDraich]

Hi guys, tactical question for y'all to consider - The Refused Centre.

After encountering the Tzeench WoC Hordestar army once again, I decided to change my deployment tactics. I deployed almost my entire army on the flanks, with the only thing in the middle being a unit of 20 Night Goblin archers. Knowing my opponent would deploy his entire (small, for 2,400pts) army just to march down the centre of the board (My opponent is notorious for refusing to place much terrain), I was able to keep my chaff units on the flanks until he was fully deployed, then I stuck my elite units on the flanks too.

Ultimately, I ended up losing the game, but this was due to my own errors (I got carried away, and charged his Hordestar on all 4 sides at once, and also lost my Lv4 Shaman with HoG to a hellcannon shot on T1, before I'd even had my turn). However, I noticed that deploying this way had him pulling his army apart right from the start, allowing me to almost pick and choose my fights at will. This enabled me to wipe out all of his units bar the Horde, and even that was near half-casualties (Last time I played him, I killed about a dozen models in total). I was able to systematically pick off his units 1-by-1.

I'm a pretty new player, I've only had maybe a dozen games so far, so this tactic has probably been discussed to death, but I think I might try to use it more often in future. Does anyone have any tips on how to maximise it's effectiveness? Is it a tactic that has worked for you in the past? What are the weaknesses I need to be aware of and look out for?

Hi and welcome to Fantasy.

1) This deployment is no 2 of the 9 types of deployment from my book. I call it 2 prong flank. Copying and pasting from the contents page:

"TYPES OF DEPLOYMENT........................................ .................................................. ..................................58
Standard Central........................................... .................................................. ....................................58
Two prong flank............................................. .................................................. ...................................59
Refused Flank .................................................. .................................................. .................................60
Weakened Flank............................................. .................................................. ...................................61
Abandoned Flank............................................. .................................................. .................................62
Chequerboard and Screens........................................... .................................................. .....................62
Gun lines............................................. .................................................. ..............................................64
Gambit deployment .................................................. .................................................. ..........................65
Defensive bubble............................................ .................................................. ...................................66"

2) Your opponent did not respond to it very well unfortunately (or fortunately) if he simply plonked his whole army in the middle.
Another quote from my book:

"Deployment is a cat and mouse game that will affect the entire battle.
The maxim of deployment is: “Wait and see” i.e. watch what and
where your opponent deploys.
...
...
...
Do not be too
proactive but react to your opponent’s deployment."

Yes, there are dangers to look out for with the 2 prong flank. In general terms, speed, Space, strength and resilience are some of the factors to consider.