Razor Standard explicitly does not work on shooting attacks unfortunately .
Razor Standard explicitly does not work on shooting attacks unfortunately .
"4 hours 27 minutes - Time it took between the ETC draft being posted and @tmarichards to ask about his free bow"
Tom " Where's my bow?" Richards
My gaming blog: http://tmarichards.blogspot.co.uk/
My Youtube BatReps thread: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...58#post5473058
so lets say it was 2k points no cap on shooting, would you take 86 glade guard over 44 and 8 treekin in 2 units of 4 ? I agree yes 40 more shots is great but what about when you play ogres or skaven and you need some big stuff to slap them up a bit ?
Treekin are great against Skaven for killing their infantry, but they still have tools to deal with them- Doomwheels, WLCs, Abombs (if you can't shoot them off first), Brass Orbs and even just units of Slaves to tie them for 2-3 phases are all a headache- so I wouldn't say they're essential.
Ogres, on the other hand, still just run straight over Treekin. If you can get the charge off on the Mournfang then you can do some damage, but most Ogre players worth their salt will just flee the charge and counter with the Gutstar, which destroys units of 6 Treekin unless you get incredibly lucky.
For the most part, if there's no cap on shooting I think you're best off maximising your Glade Guard count and double-fleeing charges for as long as you can whilst putting a high volume of shots into the enemy.
"4 hours 27 minutes - Time it took between the ETC draft being posted and @tmarichards to ask about his free bow
Tom " Where's my bow?" Richards
My gaming blog: http://tmarichards.blogspot.co.uk/
My Youtube BatReps thread: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...58#post5473058
@Master Of Fate
You have to be very careful when you play this list... this is a good way to lose friends... (However I think you can after a strong defeat, if you want revenge)
PS: I did something like that at LoTR with combining Gandalf the other Istari (forgot his name) and Hobbit Archers... not fun at all... we ended playing space hulk
@Tom
...unfortunately, that's not that explicit... (this is rather implicit I would say as many things in 8th ed.)
Last edited by DarKolia; 18-06-2012 at 18:39.
@ tmarichards
The dryads can hold thier own in some combat situations but definatly not all and obviously you need to choose them well. But wouldent dropping them leave your ability to deal with some of those harder units that glade guard cant deal with open? Even if it was a Stank, you might need that extra punch that the glade guard just cant deliver. If you dont agree with me thats totally fine im just wondering how you would go about those units you cant deal with; with glade guard.
Can't you destory building now tho lol ?Originally Posted by Master Of Fate
except that the Razor standard doesn't confer AP shots....only works on clsoe combat attacks im' afraid!
LOL yes this list like many others is a way to piss people off xD
and YES the RAZORS STANDARD does work ..... its not reversely applicable ... this has been argued back and fourth ....
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...84#post6184484
"Ranged Attacks Do Benefit from the Standard
Razor Standard (pg503):
"Models in a unit with the Razor Standard have the Armour Piercing special rule"
Armour piercing (pg67):
"Wounds caused in close combat by a model with this special rule (or who is attacking with a weapon that has this special rule) inflict a further -1 armour save modifier, in addition to those for Strength.
[Example omitted]
If a model has a weapon with the Armour Piercing special rule, only attacks made or shots fired with the weapon are armour piercing"
Yes, that is the exact the wording from the book, but as it reads If a model has a weapon with would imply the ability is not reversely conveyed, so no hand gunners getting armor piercing melee combats. All infrinces of armor piercing are denoted by ether the unit or the weapon description. The magic banner conveys Armor Piercing on the model and unless your not playing WYSIWYG I don't see any way for your weapon not to be conferred the bonus as it is part of the model. No Other basic weapon listed has rules (Poison/Flaming) with the exception of army specific or magic weapons which denote it.
There are other rules all which would agree or disagree if that is how they intended it
Killing Blow (p72)"Unless otherwise specified, killing blow applies only to close combat attacks."
Volley Fire (p78) "A unit with..." in this case volley fire is conveyed upon the unit from its weapons would be the intent.
Flaming Attacks (p69) "Unless other wise stated a model with this rule has both Flaming Shooting and close combat attacks..."
Poison Attacks (p73) "Unless other wise stated a model with this rule has both Poison Shooting and close combat attacks..."
The trend of the Special Rules description would suggest the second part is only to prevent its reverse application and that if applied magically to the model the weapon would indeed benefit.
Now unless there is part of the book that say the Term Model('s) refers effectively only to "it's" stat line and any special rules or a Model is all but the equipment that must be present for the it to be legal, then weapons are indeed part of the model but the ability can clearly not be reversely conveyed from the weapon in this case.
Enchanted blades much more clearly states that ...(p494) "All of their attacks also count as magical attacks and having the armor piercing special rule."
It is because its a general rule it has to be written to be all inclusive to cc while allowing the distinct possibility for it to be conveyed upon the models weapons via a magic item in this case. It is much easier to rule out rules or be all inclusive when you don't have any basic weapons that use those rules.
(p3) "The Spirit of the game ...lies in the freedom and open-endedness..." Thou here I do believe it is not needed (p2) "The Most Important Rule...""
Rather than post a long and wrong argument, it's simpler to just read the rules. Razor Standard does not affect shooting attacks, as per the rules.
"4 hours 27 minutes - Time it took between the ETC draft being posted and @tmarichards to ask about his free bow
Tom " Where's my bow?" Richards
My gaming blog: http://tmarichards.blogspot.co.uk/
My Youtube BatReps thread: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...58#post5473058
Rather than posting a sarcastic argument you really should point out where in the rules (posted above) that it is wrong, it helps to learn how to read and understand english and there is more than one arrogant way to take it.
"...as it reads If a model has a weapon with would imply the ability is not reversely conveyed, so no hand gunners getting armor piercing melee combats. All infrinces of armor piercing are denoted by ether the unit or the weapon description. The magic banner conveys Armor Piercing on the model."
Not limited to the weapons.....
The weapon is part of the model, when the buff* is given and would have its profile adjusted instead of the model having the rule prior to adding in its weapons profile.
This is more of an Order of Operations problem of interpretation.
Last edited by Master Of Fate; 28-06-2012 at 07:56.
I can't believe this argument has come up again.
The razor standard gives the model armour penetrating attacks - not the missile weapon. For an example of when the weapon gains the rule, see Dark Elf crossbow for comparison.
Skaw's initial optimisim about Wood Elves being re-released in mid 2013 is slipping... Early 2014 ftw!
Sorry mate, nice thinking but I think the list doesn't seem much good for anything more than novelty - artillery does horrid things to units in buildings. All your points are in so few units, regrowth isn't all that - and quite hard to cast, and you have no defence, magic could/should tear you a new one. And you actually want people to charge your glade guard?! And as others have noted, no-one plays the razor standard as giving ap shooting, pity but that's how it is.
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