Thunderfire Cannon in Drop Pod.

[Mr Zoat]

The Codex tells you that the drop pod can transfer a single dreadnought. From that you read a single dreadnought and 11 other models. Is there a point in going on?

RAW transports transport units. Not models. Whole units. So having the rule that says that the whole unit must be transported shows which of the two options is the right one. Bizarrely for GW it is the logical one

Let me just quote the exact text to you again.

'The Drop Pod has a transport capacity of 12 models. It can transport a single Dreadnought or Thunderfire Cannon.'

How many models is one Dreadnought? If it can only transport a Dreadnought and nothing else then you seem to be forcing the Techmarine who normally accompanies the Tunderfire Cannon to walk, which everyone agrees is nonsense.

If it is referring to a unit, why can Captain Shrike take a Command Squad when he is not unit name Space Marine Captain?

[TheGreatDalmuti]

By reversing your logic how many dreadnoughts or cannons is Shrike?
Again, in the BrB under transports there is a rule that says that transports carry units. You start from there.
Now a Dreadnought is a unit. A thunderfire Cannon is a unit. The "single" is redundunt, but it is there because of the previous "12 models" rule. GW tells you "We know we said 12 models, but the transport capasity is 1 for a unit of dreadnoughts and 2 for an artillery unit of thunderfire Cannon + Crew.

[Mr Zoat]

How do you know it is 2 for the Thunderfire Cannon? Characters are free to join an artillery battery, and will be part of the unit for Drop Pod purposes.

[yabbadabba]

Why is this a problem for you? I am at a loss why it is an issue?

[Mr Zoat]

I do not regard myself as having a problem. I was interested in a situation where I feel the RAW is unclear. I would play it as Cannon, Tech and up to ten Independant Characters (yours and an allies, maybe) can all fit in a Pod by RAW. I don't think that anyone would actually do this because Podding a Cannon doesn't seem like a good idea anyway. I am interested to see if anyone has a RAW argument which suggests otherwise. No one has yet raised one.

[Devestator101]

Can I ask why this thread is still ongoing??? Are you seriously saying that you would be able to take a thunderfire cannon plus 11 other models and fit it into a drop pod which can usualy fit 12 models??? Then there is the fact of Who in their right mind would put a thunderfire cannon in a drop pod. And to top it all off 11 inderpendant characters?? In the one unit???

[Mr Zoat]

No one would put it in a Drop Pod, unless required to do so for a specific scenario. I haven't seen a Space Marine player even use one around here for at least a year. That isn't the point. If you don't think that should be allowed then please either come up with a RAW reason why it shouldn't be allowed or stop posting in a thread created for that debate.

My approach limits the number of models to 12, which doesn't make much sense. The alternative suggested here that Thunderfire Cannon means Thunderfire Cannon unit would allow an unlimited number of models into one Pod, which makes even less. The best way to handle it would be to use the rules for superheavy transports where each type of large model is stated as being equivalent to a particular number of regular infantry, but those rules aren't part of normal 40K.

[lantzkev]

Why does it even need such thought? It has as a different sentence it may carry a single dreadnought or a thunderfire cannon.

even if you took the thunderfire entry to mean unit (which would be correct) there'd be no reason to assume this allowed for unlimited thunderfire cannons as it's a single dreadnought (unit) or (single )thunderfire (unit)

[TheGreatDalmuti]

There is a RAW version of the rules. The one that reads:
Infantry: 12 models
Dreadnought units: 1 model
Thunderfire Cannon: 2 models

You can't attach an IC in a cannon unit and pod them. It exceeds the pods transport capacity. The term "single thunderfire cannon" doesn't mean only one and not two cannons. It also means just one unit and nothing more.

[Fithos]

There is a RAW version of the rules. The one that reads:
Infantry: 12 models
Dreadnought units: 1 model
Thunderfire Cannon: 2 models

You can't attach an IC in a cannon unit and pod them. It exceeds the pods transport capacity. The term "single thunderfire cannon" doesn't mean only one and not two cannons. It also means just one unit and nothing more.

This seems like the best answer to me. It seems you are reading to much into the line and combining clauses that are not meant to be combined.

It says I may transport a dreadnought or a thunderfire cannon but I wouldn't argue I can transport both even though that is technically what the sentence reads. When they are separating out these clauses it is an implied exclusive or statement meaning that it is effectively separated by units. You may have a unit of 12 infantry models remembering that terminators are bulky, you may have a dreadnought (consisting only of the unit entry options) or you may have a thunderfire cannon unit (also consisting only of the legal unit options and no independent characters.)

[Mr Zoat]

The term 'unit' usually refers to a unit plus any attached Independent Characters. If it didn't characters would never be able to get into transport vehicles with other infantry. How are you claiming that Thunderfire Cannon refers to the unit as presented in the unit entry and not to any characters which are attached and therefore part of the unit?

[TheGreatDalmuti]

You must understand that a unit of marines with attached IC is not the same as a unit of marines period. It does not retain the name and characteristics. The named unit is described in the codex. So a unit of a thunderfire cannon, with attached IC is not a unit of thunderfire cannon. Consider that if the opposite was true you would never know how to describe a unit of two ICs.
Now that this is out of the way, we go to the wording of the rule. The rule tells you you can pod a single thunderfire cannon. Not a unit containing a single thunderfire cannon. So it does not have capacity to transport a general unit that the thunderfire cannonis part of. It can transport the unit as described in the codex and just that. This is why it makes a destinction and uses periods and seperate sentences. Else it would continew the first sentence saying that only one of the models could be a dreadnought (so nothing else could fit because of the "only one unit in a transport" rule) and only one of the models may be a cannon (so you could attach an IC because you would be counting models). It is this distinction that makes it so.

[Grimtuff]

If it is referring to a unit, why can Captain Shrike take a Command Squad when he is not unit name Space Marine Captain?

Because the rules on page 132 of the SM codex say he can?

[jt.glass]

There is a RAW version of the rules. The one that reads:
Infantry: 12 models
Dreadnought units: 1 model
Thunderfire Cannon: 2 models

Page? Because that doesn't so much look like RAW as RAMUBTGD. Mr Zoat quoted the actual text of the rule upthread, and absent any complelling rebuttle his argument stands (and no, "that's just silly" is not a rebuttle).


glass.

[Grimtuff]

Page? Because that doesn't so much look like RAW as RAMUBTGD. Mr Zoat quoted the actual text of the rule upthread, and absent any complelling rebuttle his argument stands (and no, "that's just silly" is not a rebuttle).


glass.

Yes, there is quite a valid rebuttal. Wheaton's law. That is all.

[jt.glass]

Yes, there is quite a valid rebuttal. Wheaton's law. That is all.

*Googles Wheaton's Law*

No, that has nothing to do with it. "Don't be a dick" might be a reason to not actually do this (as if one were needed), but it can't be a reason why it is not permitted by RAW. Try again!


glass.

[TheGreatDalmuti]

Ok I will use english language.
So lets say you want to pod a unit of marines plus Chaplain.
Is it a single unit? Yes. Is it 12 models or less? Yes. So it is Ok.

Say you want to pod a dreadnought. Is a single dreadnought one unit? Yes. Is a single dreadnought less than 12 models (this is because you want it included)? Yes. Is a single dreadnought a single dreadnought? Yes. So it is ok.

Say you want to pod a Thunderfire Cannon unit. Is it a single unit? Yes. Is it less than 12 models Yes. Is it a single Thunderfire Cannon unit? Yes. So it is ok.

Say you want to pod a Thunderfire Cannon unit with attached Librarian. Is it a single unit? Yes. Is it 12 models or less? Yes. Is it a single thunderfire Cannon unit? No. Why? Read the Codex to see what a single thunderfire Cannon unit is.

So the wording of this rule by mentioning these two units (dreadnought and thunderfire cannon) by name has made certain that you may only transport them as written in the codex.