Chaos and the Twin-Tailed Comet

[Son of Morkai]

Sooooo... I have some thoughts and questions about the twin-tailed comet. Hopefully my fellow Warseers can chime in on.

Though the icon of the twin-tailed comet has long been used by the Empire, it seems to me that the forces of Chaos have as much - if not more - reason to use the twin-tailed comet as one of their symbols. Evidence seems to show that the comet's appearance signals a strengthening of Chaos, perhaps even causing it. It seems that the appearances of Sigmar/Sotek/Valten/etc. are a reaction to the waxing of Chaos.

Additionally, the twin-tailed comet is a divergence from the norm - something unnatural.

Is it possible that any among of the forces of Chaos might use the comet as their symbol or a lucky icon? I mean, beyond the usual, "Well duh, it's Chaos, they can do anything." The Norse and others that have the most contact with the Empire probably would not, as they would still see it as a symbol of Sigmar and/or the Empire due to cultural exchange. But what about the others like the Hung or more distant Kurgan tribes? Or even disillusioned Sigmarites who have "seen the truth" about the comet and defected to the Chaos Gods?

On a related note, what about worshipers of the Gods of Law? One way or another, the twin-tailed comet signals change. It seems the symbol would be anathema to them, even as a representation of Sigmar. Yes? No?

[blackcherry]

The twin tailed comet is seen throughout the warhammer world as a sign of great change occurring. I'm sure a major chaos incursion has used it as a sign of favour in the past.

[Poncho160]

Didnt a twin tailed comet flatten Mordhiem? If I remember correctly the comet was seen as a return of Sigmar before it went all nuclear on Mordhiem. That could be seen as a sign of Chaos.

[Urgat]

Indeed. And there was a pretty evil demon in it too (Be'lakor).

[Sheena Easton]

There is no reason why a portent like a comet or phase of one of the moons can't be used by multiple factions for multiple - or even the same - meanings

So the twin-tailed comet:
Empire: Sigmar coming / choosing his champion to save the land from Chaos / Goblins / Undead / bad music aimed at teens
Chaos: Everchosen has been crowned - time to raid
High Elves: The Gates are reopening, prepare for invasion and send aid to the Empire.
Dark Elves: The Gates are reopening, strengthen the borders and prepare for an invasion of Ulthuan
Skaven: Quick-quick! While the northeners and the filthy furless man-things fight-fight, we will gather our strength and then invade the filthy Empire and conquer it for The Horned Rat!
Lizardmen: The warm blooded irregular fractals are straying from the Old Ones plans, rebalance the equations!
Wood Elves: More hated Beastmen to kill as they flock to make war on the humans!
Brettonians: This will mean more Chaos creatures emerging! Declare an Errantry War! This will also solve that little lack of land for these young knights problem.
Dwarfs: Manlings will want our aid again like they did yesterday when that Sigmar wanted swords instead of perfectly good axes *grumble*
etc

Didnt a twin tailed comet flatten Mordhiem? If I remember correctly the comet was seen as a return of Sigmar before it went all nuclear on Mordhiem. That could be seen as a sign of Chaos.

Then it was seen as a sign that Sigmar did not approve of the shenanigans occurring in Mordheim and he punished the wicked Chaos worshipping habitants with his sign.

[woodster17]

Vampire Counts too- although they're far less interested in omens and religion- no need for such superstitious lark when you're dead. The comet smashing in to Sylvania during the great Plague in 1111 caused the dead to originally rise in the province so surely such comet's are as much a portent of evil for the Vampires as an annual event like Geihimisnacht and Hexennacht?

[TheDungen]

Well archon used to be a templar of sigmar and when he sees the comet after his crowning he doubts for a moment, becuase its a sign of sigmar. Its in a white dwarf fluff piece The coronation of Archon in uk wd 271. Since he states in another story that "i will return for now i know the truth" (assuming he is the same as Gottard from WD 273) it would seem he would know if it was really a sign of chaos rather than of sigmar.

[Shadey]

There is no reason why a portent like a comet or phase of one of the moons can't be used by multiple factions for multiple - or even the same - meanings

So the twin-tailed comet:
Empire: Sigmar coming / choosing his champion to save the land from Chaos / Goblins / Undead / bad music aimed at teens
Chaos: Everchosen has been crowned - time to raid
High Elves: The Gates are reopening, prepare for invasion and send aid to the Empire.
Dark Elves: The Gates are reopening, strengthen the borders and prepare for an invasion of Ulthuan
Skaven: Quick-quick! While the northeners and the filthy furless man-things fight-fight, we will gather our strength and then invade the filthy Empire and conquer it for The Horned Rat!
Lizardmen: The warm blooded irregular fractals are straying from the Old Ones plans, rebalance the equations!
Wood Elves: More hated Beastmen to kill as they flock to make war on the humans!
Brettonians: This will mean more Chaos creatures emerging! Declare an Errantry War! This will also solve that little lack of land for these young knights problem.
Dwarfs: Manlings will want our aid again like they did yesterday when that Sigmar wanted swords instead of perfectly good axes *grumble*
etc

Then it was seen as a sign that Sigmar did not approve of the shenanigans occurring in Mordheim and he punished the wicked Chaos worshipping habitants with his sign.

The problem with that is if it is a sign of Sigmar but then the Everchosen comes over for a beatdown, how is the menschen going to feel about it then? How are they going to feel about Sigmar? It is meant to be a sign of Sigmar, not a warning.

In the last Daemon codex it was said the chariots of Tzeentch, Discs pulled by 2 screams look very much like a twin tailed comet, yet what could be interpreted easily as a sign of Sigmar, is apparantly an omen of doom.

[Quinzy]

I think the point is that it's a sign of whatever, to whoever interprets it. The Sigmarites might reckon the Everchosen's coming after a twin-tailed comet is a sign that the Sigmarites must fight the Everchosen, as Sigmar himself has given them a sign. For the Everchosen the sign might be an omen indicating they are to do forth and destroy the world, or even destroy the Sigmarites. For any group the sign could be something to rally under and fight.

[Shadey]

I think the point is that it's a sign of whatever, to whoever interprets it.

Yes, I understand that, my point was based on that, that when one person interprets it as a sign of Sigmar, but then gets his town razed by the Everchosen how is he going to rationalize the contradictions?

As I said, it is meant to be a positive sign of Sigmar's influence though in hindsight, the nature of belief I am sure some would rationalize it as a warning/rally call. Also was it used as such in the Storm of Chaos? Or was it just the arrival of Valten?

[Lorcryst]

*snip*but then gets his town razed by the Everchosen how is he going to rationalize the contradictions?*snip*

That's the problem, rationalization : the people of the Old World are a superstitious, almost fanatical bunch ... their town being razed by The Everchosen after a sighting of the Twin-Tailed Comet would mean this ~> "We failed Holy Sigmar ! Shame on us ! *forms band of flagellants*"

[Quinzy]

Yes, I understand that, my point was based on that, that when one person interprets it as a sign of Sigmar, but then gets his town razed by the Everchosen how is he going to rationalize the contradictions?

As I said, it is meant to be a positive sign of Sigmar's influence though in hindsight, the nature of belief I am sure some would rationalize it as a warning/rally call. Also was it used as such in the Storm of Chaos? Or was it just the arrival of Valten?

I understand you're aware of that. My point was that no matter what happens, it will be seen as a sign from Sigmar for something. Town destroyed? Must have deserved it somehow. Probably didn't pray hard enough.

It's pretty much how any omen was interpreted in the past and its outcome made meaningful one way or another.

[Athelassan]

Vampire Counts too- although they're far less interested in omens and religion- no need for such superstitious lark when you're dead. The comet smashing in to Sylvania during the great Plague in 1111 caused the dead to originally rise in the province so surely such comet's are as much a portent of evil for the Vampires as an annual event like Geihimisnacht and Hexennacht?

Was that comet twin-tailed? (In fact, was there even a comet? There was a warpstone rain in -1600ish caused by Nagash, but I thought the business during the Plague was just due to Vanhal screwing around, and Sylvania was already dodgy as a result of the earlier warpstone exposure. I might remember incorrectly, though).

[LotusCorgi]

The original twin tailed comet, the one that hereled the birth of Sigmar, was really the birth pod of an infant primarch, set adrift on the aether, who would be found by the Unbegoreans after his birth pod smashed into the nacent empire. Bet on it.

[woodster17]

Was that comet twin-tailed? (In fact, was there even a comet? There was a warpstone rain in -1600ish caused by Nagash, but I thought the business during the Plague was just due to Vanhal screwing around, and Sylvania was already dodgy as a result of the earlier warpstone exposure. I might remember incorrectly, though).

I've no idea if it was twin-tailed but there does seem to be an awful lot of comets in the old world. Fortunately there are all small enough not to cause extinction level events while big enough and warpstone fuelled enough to cause catastrophe! Anyway, Geihimisnacht 1111IC Sylvania did indeed experience meteor impacts, which in turn caused the Undead to rise. Vanhal subsequently bound them to his will, conquered Sylvania and inadvertently (maybe) stopped the Skaven Invasion of the Empire after the Great Plague. Chaotic time. Obviously not as many records from that period but there is a chance the meteor(s) could have been twin tailed.

[MOMUS]

There is no reason why a portent like a comet or phase of one of the moons can't be used by multiple factions for multiple - or even the same - meanings

So the twin-tailed comet:
Lizardmen: The warm blooded irregular fractals are straying from the Old Ones plans, rebalance the equations!.

Didnt the twin tailed comet signal the rise of Sotek?

[Urgat]

I've no idea if it was twin-tailed but there does seem to be an awful lot of comets in the old world. Fortunately there are all small enough not to cause extinction level events while big enough and warpstone fuelled enough to cause catastrophe!

Iirc, they're usually chunks of Morrslieb, not actual comets. Really, if you look at the grand picture, the twin tailed comet is really a portent of fate, it's not specific to any event. If it shows up, something's gonna happen.

[TheDungen]

My guess would be that the increasing amount of chaos energy acts as a magnet upon the moon tearing chunks from it.

[Londinium]

The original twin tailed comet, the one that hereled the birth of Sigmar, was really the birth pod of an infant primarch, set adrift on the aether, who would be found by the Unbegoreans after his birth pod smashed into the nacent empire. Bet on it.

Maybe fifteen years ago, not now.

[Urgat]

My guess would be that the increasing amount of chaos energy acts as a magnet upon the moon tearing chunks from it.

Possible, though I'd go the other way around: Morrslieb comes too close to the planet, increasing the winds tremendously, stirring things up down there.