Brettonian Lance Formation Rule Idea

[Tygre]

I had this idea for Bretonnians. Instead of having clunky rules for unit formation, let them use normal unit ranking up and allow them to cause disruption on the unit they charge. On the first turn only.

Lance Formation
As Bretonnian Knights thunder into the enemy they adopt what they call Lance Formation. They form a wedge as they charge in, that penetrates deep into the enemy ranks. As having enemy knights amongst your ranks from a frontal charge is very disrupting, the Bretonnian Knights cause Disruption on the unit they charged. If the Bretonnian Knights do not qualify for disruption, 2 ranks of 5 models on the flank or rear, the disruption only lasts for this round of combat.

However you word it this is the idea I came up with. It gives Bretonnian Knights a bit of combat resolution punch in the first round of combat.

[Charistoph]

Disruption doesn't stop Steadfast, though, which is one of the 3 things that have really hurt Cavalry, especially Bretonnian Knights, in this edition. Bretons at least can rank in 3's like Monstrous Cavalry which give them a prayer at breaking Steadfast that other Cavalry have difficulty even touching, the ability to have Support Attacks from the flanks of the formation is now just an excellent bonus.

[Agoz]

Yeah, the lance formation right now is good because it gives the bret knights ranks, and attacks, both of which are needed to break steadfast troops on the charge, disruption would only give them a few extra points of combat res, which they probably won't need on the charge anyway, they should be winning comfortably from wounds alone.

[TheOneHawk]

If the unit could not be steadfast in the turn it was charged, then it would do the job. Too well, unfortunately.

[Gromdal]

I hate the 3 models wide units. It looks ridicoulus.

I would prefer if they simply made the bret knights harder. And removed the unit rules.

Failing that allow the lance to fight in 3 ranks (like hordes) and give them double rank bonus for their ranks. Ie 15 bret knights would all strike(if deployed 5x3), and count as 4 ranks deep.

[Tygre]

I hate the 3 models wide units. It looks ridicoulus.

Me too.
My Idea was basically, when they charge the enemy does not get his rank bonus. Maybe I should have said that at the start rather than trying to use disruption.

[Athlan na Dyr]

Eh, I think it makes look different. Something to distinguish them from other human knights and set them apart as their own army and (rather importantly) more than just Empire without guns.

Mechanics wise, there is very little wrong with the current incarnation of the lance formation. Indeed the only thing I would think to change is the unit caps (get rid of them) and create a 'horde' version.

edit:
@Tygre: What you are proposing is (at best) a +3 swing in combat resolution marred by a massive drop in Steadfast breaking power. May I ask why?
@Gromdal: You are effectively retaining the mechanics of the lance formation, with merely a change in formation. However, you are significantly raising the damage the Bretonian player is going to suffer in return. I don't really see the reason to change how it currently works

[theunwantedbeing]

I had this idea for Bretonnians. Instead of having clunky rules for unit formation,

I'll stop reading now.

The lance formation rules are not clunky and work fine.
Your rule (yes I lied about stopping reading) is not better, it is worse.

[kramplarv]

I'd like to add "devestating charge" to bretonnian knights as a general rule

[theunwantedbeing]

I'd like to add "devestating charge" to bretonnian knights as a general rule

I think the OP could learn a few lessons from you.

[Gromdal]

Eh, I think it makes look different. Something to distinguish them from other human knights and set them apart as their own army and (rather importantly) more than just Empire without guns.

Mechanics wise, there is very little wrong with the current incarnation of the lance formation. Indeed the only thing I would think to change is the unit caps (get rid of them) and create a 'horde' version.

edit:
@Tygre: What you are proposing is (at best) a +3 swing in combat resolution marred by a massive drop in Steadfast breaking power. May I ask why?
@Gromdal: You are effectively retaining the mechanics of the lance formation, with merely a change in formation. However, you are significantly raising the damage the Bretonian player is going to suffer in return. I don't really see the reason to change how it currently works

Yeah but my lance formation works on the 2nd round of combat. Considering 8ths general idea of bloody combat i dont find it fitting that the brets are 3 wide.

[Urgat]

Imho it works great as it is, and it looks fine to me. I prefer the way it looked during 5th ed, but, well, I don't see that coming back.
In short, sorry OP, but me not likes

[theunwantedbeing]

Yeah but my lance formation works on the 2nd round of combat. Considering 8ths general idea of bloody combat i dont find it fitting that the brets are 3 wide.

Yeah but the lance formation isn't supposed to do that and you can always combat reform at the end of the round.

[Charistoph]

Me too.
My Idea was basically, when they charge the enemy does not get his rank bonus. Maybe I should have said that at the start rather than trying to use disruption.

That's what Disruption is, removing the Rank Bonus, and that's all it does. It does nothing for reducing the comparative number of Ranks and Steadfast, therefore, useless in allowing the Cavalry to win by their method, killing enough to cause the enemy to lose heart and scatter.

I hate the 3 models wide units. It looks ridicoulus.

I don't, but rather the fact that a maximized Lance looks like a snake from hell extending far beyond its needs.

I would prefer if they simply made the bret knights harder. And removed the unit rules.

Failing that allow the lance to fight in 3 ranks (like hordes) and give them double rank bonus for their ranks. Ie 15 bret knights would all strike(if deployed 5x3), and count as 4 ranks deep.

I would be happy if they were able to Lance and Horde properly. 6 wide, everyone attacks on the charge except for the middle 2 File.

I'd like to add "devestating charge" to bretonnian knights as a general rule

I'd rather have Impact Hits (it would do the same thing, AND allow some damage to get beyond the Initiative of certain flimsy infantry).

[Djekar]

Theunwantedbeing really hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned. The lance if fine and you can reform to wider than 3 after the charge to get out of "hey my flanks are 2 1/2 feet long!" mode.

I do like the "horde-lance" and Devastating Charge possible additions too.

[Skopey]

The scrapping of the 15 model limit and the addition of a 5-6wide horde is what i would like to see included in a future bret book. Assuming we ever get a new book

[Urgat]

Well, the upper limit removal is a given. Lance horde is pretty straightforward too, I'd be more surprised if they didn't add it than if they did, to be honest. As for having a new book... that's another matter entirely

[Juicy21]

I prefer to see something like this.

Lance formation gives bretonnian knights devestating charge special rule.... ( mayb without the immume for psy) that atleast give my lances some attack as i see my unit of 15 knights sometimes do like 4 kills on the charge..

[StygianBeach]

Imho it works great as it is, and it looks fine to me. I prefer the way it looked during 5th ed, but, well, I don't see that coming back.
In short, sorry OP, but me not likes

I am glad they changed the formation from an arrow to what it is now. Moving them around (physically) was much more hassel back in the day.

I like the current Bret Lance formation, it really makes them look different. I am not so keen on a Horded Lance formation, unless it is minimum 9 models wide or such, or they change the Lance to be 4 models wide, then an 8 wide Lance would be okay with me.

* adding devastating charge would be okay as well.

[amakiir]

The problem with Bretonians isn't cavalry, although they need a point reduction (12 knights should cost 200 points, not 240), it is their lack of support units. Their Pegasus knights should be on par with Vargheists. Maybe giving them Griffin Knights or Hippogrpyh knights for rare. Some yeoman foot archers with light armor, shield, handweapon and longbow. Men at Arms heavy armor upgrade. Maybe a unit equivalent to flagallents, or at least more battle pilgrims.

Support, support, support.