Are chaos lords killy enough as is? I was looking at adding gear, glanced at their stats and said why bother. Stick em on a maticore or dragon, toss in a charmed shield, and hit a flank.
Are chaos lords killy enough as is? I was looking at adding gear, glanced at their stats and said why bother. Stick em on a maticore or dragon, toss in a charmed shield, and hit a flank.
do that an a enemy lord could actually stop em then
2.5k+ bretonnian army
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yeah, usually the mount drops before the lord will so you'll at least need something that gets around armor or boosts your STR.
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Combat lords are usually on the outs with everybody taking wizard lords. I haven't seen a combat lord outside of orcs and daemons, not anything that could smash up a chaos lord. He won't be flanking a nit till something is hitting the front of it. It just seems to me to be piling on points on an already death engine.
Their statlines are great, but adding gear just enhances it even more. It may seem like he is the top dog, but there are many other killy lord builds that will give him a huge problem (quickblood asf vamp lord, bloodthirster). I like to give mine a 3+ ward (MoT and talisman of preservation) a sword of anti heroes and helm of many eyes (ASF) and stick him in a unit with banner of discipline for leadership 10 inspiring presence. Cheap and effective. The monster mounts are not cost effective at all.
You'll usually see Chaos Lords in 3,000 point games when you have 750 points for lords.
Sexiest Hero a Chaos Lord with a 3+ armour 3+ ward will die in one round on average to a Vampire Lord with Sword of Anti-Heroes, Quickblood, Dread Knight, Nightshroud, Other Trickster's Shard, Hellish Vigour and Red Fury.
5.33 hits. 4.74 wounds. 4 wounds after armour saves. 2.22 after ward saves. 2.22 free attacks. 2 more hits. 1.82 more wounds. 1.53 more wounds after armour. 0.84 more wounds after wards.
3.06 unsaved wounds on average.
If you have more than just the Chaos Lord in the unit it gets much worse.
Last edited by NitrosOkay; 19-06-2012 at 22:08.
Thousand Sons/Daemons of Tzeentch/Vampire Counts
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Let's put it like this: a Chaos Lord with 100 points of magic items costs 310 points. 18 Warriors of Khorne cost 318 points, a K'daai Destroyer costs 325 points, 6 Chaos Trolls cost 270 points... the problem with Chaos Lords and such isn't that they're not strong, it's that they aren't worth the price you pay for them.
Originally Posted by ZeroTwentythree
For me there is only one reason to run a combat lord if ever, which is have a mobile flyer that can hunt big monsters
Tzeentch Lord on Disc with Shield
3+ Ward, Dragon Helm to get to 1+ Armor as well as blanking anyone with fire attacks(Destroyer/Bloodthirsters), +any combination of weapons
Exactly right, add to this the utility and functionality of a level 4 Sorc and yea...........wait for the next WoC book you would hope they got the message about making the Chaos Lord more viable.
Just looking at the Empire book, I would say they have gotten the message about fighter characters. Hold the Line isn't the end all be all, but it adds something to the Generals and Captains that warrants consideration.
There's also the crown of command nonsense, but apart from that I agree.
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Well it looks like I'm going against the grain saying this, but I actually take a Chaos Lord. Here's my typical kit:
Chaos Lord
Chaos Steed
MoK
Charmed Shield
Chaos Runesword
Helm of Many Eyes
Necrotic Phylactery
He's 339 points, so definitely not cheap, but he's never let me down.
So he's rolling a 1+ armor save, with 7 attacks (usually re-rollable 3+ to hit, unless you're fighting something with WS9 and initiative 8) at S6. This makes him really good against...well, absolutely everything. He does have stupidity, however if you keep him near your BSB you can re-roll failed stupidity tests anyway so he'll rarely wander off somewhere. That necrotic phylactery is there to ensure he never gets sniped by lore of death spells, and he passes all characteristics tests so you can't just kill him with pit of shades or purple sun (for only 10 points it's a no-brainer in this edition of fail-characteristic-test-you-die spells). The charmed shield is actually cheaper than the mundane shield by 5 points, and gives you a chance of ignoring the first hit against him on a 2+.
In any case it just depends on the rest of your army build. I run a list that needs little in the way of magical support so I can afford to take him instead of a Lv.4, but I would definitely recommend playtesting one a couple of times to see how it fits with the rest of your army.
Not as versitile as the Sorcerer lord, not killy enough for the points and you have to deck them out to survive considering the points sink, but I would take a Chaos Lord any day over the Daemon Prince (who need a serious overhaul in the new book).
"In a game based on the roll of a dice, sometimes the dice don't play the game"
Truth be told those aren't fighter characters, they're support characters, and very rarely taken over an AL/WP.
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First character on my list is always a Chaos Lord. He does quite well, and is more fun than the old "disc around, spell, spell, fly away, spell, spell".
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This is a great build, and I've tried to use him myself in the past. My biggest challenge is that he's so damned expensive that I can't afford to give him much of a unit to sit in, so when he does hit his unit is severely depleted, and he loses on combat res (after his mighty challenge is accepted by a lowly champion, of course).
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Dan, do you ever find yourself missing a ward save on that Chaos Lord? I'm not trying to nit-pick, but I'm a bit of a pessimist and so I compulsively have to get ward saves on my Lord level fighters.
There will always be times when a ward save would save you. At best, with a non-Tzeentch character, it will save you against KB 1/2 the time, or against multi-wound weapons the same amount. Some weapons ignore armour saves, and a ward would help.
But it's a whole lotta points that could be spent on being more killy. As someone who runs Doombulls, I rarely put a ward save on 'im. You want to strip steadfast as quickly as possible.
The doombull generally runs with a 1+ rerollable and has more wounds than a Chaos Lord. For some reason I can accept less protection if they have more wounds. And again, I'm not claiming that he *needs* a ward save, I was just curious how often it even came up, since I am near incapable of not putting a ward on a character.
Great point, though those times are rare. As he's pretty much immune to dangerous magic outside of the Lore of Metal the only thing that has a chance of hurting him is another combat character, and there aren't many of those that do wounds with no armor saves. Even that nasty vampire lord mentioned above dies to this guy:
Vampire strikes first with 6 attacks at S6 from sword of anti-heroes.
4.5 hits after re-rolls, 2.97 wounds, .98 wounds after armor saves.
That gives the vampire +1 attack, so .75 hits after re-rolls, .49 wounds, .16 wounds after armor save.
Vampire does a total of 1.14 wounds.
Chaos Lord strikes with 7 attacks.
3.5 hits with no re-rolls, 2.31 wounds, vampire has no armor.
Poof.
Additionally that vampire is more expensive by my count. Back to your question, however, if there is a combat character capable of killing him or negating his armor saves he's quick enough on his warhorse to keep him away from that threat.
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