Price for future release

[redshylock]

Did anyone think mantic will increase their price for the new release? Mantic stated in their kick starter page a lot of model will be $25 for 10 models. While it is still cheaper than GW it is a lot more expensive than mantic current price.

[Shimmergloom]

Nearly all the things being made from kickstarter will come out in restic and not plastic, so $25 for 10 restic models is light years cheaper than the $66 for 10 finecast models that GW currently is pricing them at.

The current new plastics like the new goblins are $25 for 20.

[Sean_OBrien]

Price increases are part of doing business unfortunately. You either do them to keep up with costs or you go out of business. The $25 for 10 though isn't a price increase. Right now - something like 10 Abyssal Dwarves goes for £17.99 which works out to be $28 or so. The resin is cheaper than metal but more expensive than the plastics. Since most of the stuff in this batch is slated for resin - they are in the same ball park as the rest of them have been.

[redshylock]

Nearly all the things being made from kickstarter will come out in restic and not plastic

I am not sure that it is in resin as it state in the page:

Mummies (Plastic, 10 Models) - $25
Gargoyles (Plastic, 10 Models) - $25
Dwarf Berserker Brock Riders (Plastic, 5 Models) - $25
Elf Palace Guard (Plastic, 10 Models) - $25
Goblin Fleabag Riders (Plastic, 5 Models) - $25
Abyssal Dwarf Immortal Guard (Plastic, 10 Models) - $25
Elf Stormwind Cavalry (Plastic, 5 Models) - $25
Twilight Kin Dark Knights (Plastic, 5 Models) - $25
Celestian Battle Sisters (Plastic, 10 Models) -$25

[Sean_OBrien]

Yes, yes, yes...

The "sprue less" plastic is a resin...or at best it will be a thermoset plastic. It isn't the hard plastic HIPS which we know traditionally as plastic. They can call it plastic with a mostly straight face because everything from the acrylic paints we use the the bumper on my Toyota are all made of plastic - but that isn't exactly what most people think of when they think of plastic miniatures.

[BobtheInquisitor]

Mantic calls it Plastic, but it is really restic. The only "true" plastic kit Mantic is releasing soon is the goblin archers kit. However, if we bug them enough, they might also produce true plastic Celestian Men at Arms.

[EmperorNorton]

I am not sure that it is in resin as it state in the page:

Mummies (Plastic, 10 Models) - $25
Gargoyles (Plastic, 10 Models) - $25
Dwarf Berserker Brock Riders (Plastic, 5 Models) - $25
Elf Palace Guard (Plastic, 10 Models) - $25
Goblin Fleabag Riders (Plastic, 5 Models) - $25
Abyssal Dwarf Immortal Guard (Plastic, 10 Models) - $25
Elf Stormwind Cavalry (Plastic, 5 Models) - $25
Twilight Kin Dark Knights (Plastic, 5 Models) - $25
Celestian Battle Sisters (Plastic, 10 Models) -$25

Regrettably Mantic continue to use the word "Plastic" in a somewhat misleading way.
In these cases it's not hard plastic that comes on a sprue, but their sprue-less restic, which technically is a plastic of some kind.
I wish they'd adjust their use of terms to take into consideration that their customers are gamers, not chemists.

[Sean_OBrien]

I wish they'd adjust their use of terms to take into consideration that their customers are gamers, not chemists.

Actually, I wish they would use terms suited for a chemist and not a corporate executive. Gamers care if it is plastic, resin or metal. Executives don't care at all - they just like plastic because it sounds more modern than tin or white metal. The chemist wants to know if it is a Urethane resin, a vinyl, an ABS or a polystyrene - or even better, the specific manufacturer and product ID of said plastic. To a chemist, the word plastic means even less than it does to your average guy on the street...it is like saying "Paint it blue" to a painter - what color of blue are you talking about?

[mattjgilbert]

It IS plastic, but it's not polystyrene and the models do not come on a sprue. You need super-glue to stick them together - liquid poly or poly cement will not melt it, simply because it is not polystyrene.

So they are notmisleading anyone when they say these are plastic. They have started specifically saying "sprueless plastic" to not make it clear when they are not talking about polystyrene.

[Sean_OBrien]

It IS plastic, but it's not polystyrene and the models do not come on a sprue. You need super-glue to stick them together - liquid poly or poly cement will not melt it, simply because it is not polystyrene.

So they are notmisleading anyone when they say these are plastic. They have started specifically saying "sprueless plastic" to not make it clear when they are not talking about polystyrene.

It is plastic in as much as the bumper of my Toyota is plastic. However, when your average miniature consumer thinks plastic, they think of polystyrene or ABS which can be glued using various solvent cements to other plastic parts.

In that regards it is misleading. Also, the sprue does not make it polystyrene. You can have metal or resin on a sprue just as easily as you can have polystyrene off the sprue. That particular label really has nothing to do with the material - and for the large portion of the gaming population who doesn't actually dig deeper into the materials used...it is just as misleading as the preorder videos that GW put out.

[BobtheInquisitor]

So they are notmisleading anyone when they say these are plastic. They have started specifically saying "sprueless plastic" to not make it clear when they are not talking about polystyrene.

They are misleading people, though. "Plastic miniatures" are understood to work with "plastic glue". While this restic material is technically a plastic, it is not the plastic gamers expect, the plastic implied in the industry with the word "plastic".

Now, if they consistently use a modifier, such as "sprueless" or "bad" before the word "plastic", there won't be a problem. But if they use the same term to describe two different model media that they themselves sell, they will annoy their customers.

Personally, I think they should just call it "Restic" or "bad plastic" for simplicity.

Edit: Or "Manticast"!

[Max Jet]

They are misleading people, though. "Plastic miniatures" are understood to work with "plastic glue". While this restic material is technically a plastic, it is not the plastic gamers expect, the plastic implied in the industry with the word "plastic".

Now, if they consistently use a modifier, such as "sprueless" or "bad" before the word "plastic", there won't be a problem. But if they use the same term to describe two different model media that they themselves sell, they will annoy their customers.

Personally, I think they should just call it "Restic" or "bad plastic" for simplicity.

Edit: Or "Manticast"!

Sadly I have to agree with you. It's getting really tiresome to hear the word and not to know which of two products you will get. This is deliberately misleading, if they'd be interested to inform you, they'd always say polysterine and (whatever the other thing is). But they don't. They try to ride a wave of "Hurray!! It's not metal and no bad quality finecast! So it's equally good!!" But it is not. It is not equally good, please please please Mantic. Stop misleading us. Use a definite expression for HIPS Model kits and whatevertheresticstuffis Model kits.

[decker_cky]

They've started calling it sprueless plastic fairly consistently, but they're still not at 100%. So long as they consistently state either hard plastic or sprueless plastic, I'm happy.

[Sean_OBrien]

But - their entire Kickstarter BOGOF section doesn't follow that naming convention, which lead to redshylock's initial confusion on a price hike. Says plastic, plastic, plastic and more plastic. Now, you wouldn't blame someone for thinking - PLASTIC. You also wouldn't blame them for opening the box and being disappointed by the plastic...especially if they tried to glue it with plastic glue only to be even more disappointed.

There is nothing wrong with resin, there isn't even anything wrong with metal. But, plastic a certain understanding to it which is different than the stuff which they are calling plastic.

[Amorphous]

OMG people! If they say resin or restic it drives away a lot of consumers who have had a bad experiance with GW's Finecrap. That is why they are saying plastic or sprueless plastic. I've been working in plastic molding for over 10 years and resin or restic are still plastic and if you buy it expecting polystyrene without asking questions that is your own fault.

However maybe to keep the uneducated masses happy they should have a disclaimer stating "Our sprueless plastic models are made from high quality (insert actual material) and as such will require super glue to bond".

Everyone who has gotten "restic" models from Mantic before has been pleased with the quality and workability. It is also unfair to expect mantic to drive away customers who are going to make an unfair comparison to other companies "resin" crap.

Oh and FYI the raw materials including Polystyrene that are used in the injection molding process are all referred to as resins so even that term can be misleading.

[The Devourer]

I really think mantic should consider putting an article on their site to explain the differences between the types of material. It should help clear up confusion on what exactly you are buying and will prevent people judging its quality based on experience with other companies.

[BobtheInquisitor]

OMG people! If they say resin or restic it drives away a lot of consumers who have had a bad experiance with GW's Finecrap.

For a GOOD REASON!

Restic is not a very good material to work with, and most casual modellers would choose plastic over it any day of the week. When judging whether or not a kit is worth its price, customers deserve to know how difficult it will be to assemble or convert.

Besides, I prefer working with Finecast (provided I received a nice, bubble-free cast) over restic for three very simple reasons: 1) It's easier to glue since Finecast bonds almost immediately even with water citadel super glue. 2) It's easier to straighten bent pieces using hot water (at least Finecast is easier than PP's restic. I haven't had to bend Mantic restic yet.). 3) It's easier to clean of mold lines and flash (especially easier than PP's version).

That is why they are saying plastic or sprueless plastic. I've been working in plastic molding for over 10 years and resin or restic are still plastic and if you buy it expecting polystyrene without asking questions that is your own fault.

How dare the customer expect the seller to use industry-standard terminology! It's not false advertising if it's a lie by omission! Blame the ignorant customer for not double-checking the (hopefully extant) fine print on every single hobby product he buys in the expectation that it could be a scam! How dare words have consistent connotations based on context!

However maybe to keep the uneducated masses happy they should have a disclaimer stating "Our sprueless plastic models are made from high quality (insert actual material) and as such will require super glue to bond".

Uneducated masses? I happen to have a degree and a certification. They just don't happen to be in the field of commercial plastics. But thanks for the condescension, Dr Cooper.

Besides, arguing for a disclaimer is our position, not yours. Who are you arguing with? Maybe it's yourself. John, you are the demons.

Everyone who has gotten "restic" models from Mantic before has been pleased with the quality and workability.

That is an UNTRUTH!

I was very much not pleased with the workability! My Corp troops took more than ten times as long to assemble as my DFG marines, and they had fewer parts! No matter how much I dry fitted the parts, by the time I've held the super-glued pieces together enough to become tacky, nevermind adhere, the slight shaking of my pulse has caused the pieces to misalign ever so slightly, resulting in a corporation who trains its soldiers to hold their guns funny! And the only way to fix the problem is to break the glue and start over and pray to a Golden Throne I don't believe in that the next ten minutes spent holding an arm on a torso are not spent in vain! No, I was very much not pleased!

All in all, I'd rate restic just below metal. All of the same negatives, but at least metal can be bent slightly. And I hate metal like a singer hates rehab.

Still, I'll deal with it for some of the better sculpts, like those lovely forgefather vets.

It is also unfair to expect mantic to drive away customers who are going to make an unfair comparison to other companies "resin" crap.

Wouldn't it be fair to expect Mantic to warn away customers would make a fair comparison to many companies' (including this one) restic crap? Truth in advertising mean anything anymore?

Oh and FYI the raw materials including Polystyrene that are used in the injection molding process are all referred to as resins so even that term can be misleading.

But they are not referred to that way in communication with the customer. How is this a difficult distinction?

[Shimmergloom]

The FAQ for the Kickstarter is quite clear about the materials used for their figures.

What are your figures made from?

Our core figures are made from two varieties of plastic: Hard Plastic and Plastic Resin. Our hero figures are made from metal. Our "Elite" armies are hybrids of metal upgrades and plastic models.

It's not a lie by omission and it's not false advertising. They tell you exactly that they make their figures from 2 types of plastic and use metal upgrades for their elite armies.

[redshylock]

The FAQ for the Kickstarter is quite clear about the materials used for their figures.



It's not a lie by omission and it's not false advertising. They tell you exactly that they make their figures from 2 types of plastic and use metal upgrades for their elite armies.

The problem for me is they use the term "resin" in some of their reward so when they said "plastic" I assume it's hard plastic. In Any event the only reason I am concern is that whether it is safe for me to work on those model when my 10 months old son is in the room and I will be very happy if mantic is more specific.

And with due respect, a Warning label that define nuts as peanuts or chestnuts doesn't really help the guy who is allergy to peanuts.

[Grimmeth]

They are misleading people, though. "Plastic miniatures" are understood to work with "plastic glue". While this restic material is technically a plastic, it is not the plastic gamers expect, the plastic implied in the industry with the word "plastic".

You need to get out of your GW mindset - GW market Polystyrene Cement as 'plastic glue'. No-one else does.
It specifically states on the Kickstarter page that all the new plastic mini's will be sprueless plastic - there's no misleading going on here. Just people not taking the time to read the details through.