EmperorNorton's Overabundance of Projects Log
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It clearly doesn't work on all plastics though. Liquid Poly or Polystyrene cement is only intended for Polystyrene!
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye... and then it's just fun!
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Pretty much everyone who makes a solvent cement for plastics calls it plastic cement - not polystyrene cement. There is a reason for that.
Calling it sprueless plastic (or quite often just plastic) does confuse people (even people who come to these and other forums are confused by it). I like Mantic - like them as a company a bunch. This is the one spot that they bug me though - as when I tell people to check out Mantic, I then have to also make it clear that there are a bunch of their plastic miniatures which are not plastic...they are resin. Then I have to help them decipher which ones are which (after all, elite armies is about as helpful as a term as sprueless is). A term which is not confusing to your average bum off the streets would make things much easier for getting the word out about them.
Last edited by Sean_OBrien; 24-06-2012 at 11:51.
What would you suggest calling it, then? It's easy to go on about why it's bad, but much harder to think of a working solution.
Agree that "Plastic" is confusing, but "Sprueless Plastic" works well enough.
Can't call it "resin" because it isn't, and when you do that, Mantic gets bombarded with everyone jumping to the conclusion that is it exactly like Citadel Finecast. That *the first* question any person who is familiar with GW products asks as soon as they hear the word "resin". Mantic was using the term "resin plastic" just fine until GW came along and created a "resin = bubble-filled, miscast, overpriced, bendy, fragile material" perception amongst your average gamer which tainted the "resin plastic" term Mantic was using by association.
I'm not making this up, I have lost count of the amount of times I have seen "so, like finecast, then?" in response to seeing the words "resin plastic".
A trade name like "Manticast" or whatever is just completely and utterly confusing, and gives the consumer zero information about anything.
All Mantic products are clearly labelled with the requirement to use superglue where this is required.
Privateer Press has been calling a similar type of stuff to what Mantic uses "Plastic" for several years now without any problems... other than a bunch of initial rants about the lack of sprues and need for superglue, Warmachine players have mostly been quite happy about it.
Easier transition for their market though, since as an all-metal company previously, everyone was using superglue for everything anyway.
As for superglue allergies, it is unfortunate, but there are good alternatives, such as epoxy adhesive... I use this stuff anyway, despite not having any allergies, a bit of alraldite makes damned sure that anything you want glued, stays glued.
Finally, there are a lot of *historical* plastic kits, ones which do come on sprues, that can't be glued using Polystyrene cement, because they are not polystyrene.
I have a set of 10mm ACW that needs superglue, there are literally hundreds of 1/72 historical kits that require superglue as well.
So, even with people coming at this from a perspective of Airfix kits and historicals there is an established familiarity with "plastic that doesn't work with plastic glue".
Last edited by scarletsquig; 25-06-2012 at 10:31.
If you play any of Mantic's games, check out my Battlescribe project for KoW and Warpath.
I'm still not entirely sure what peoples problem with Mantic calling their sprueless plastics Plastic is? Just seems that people are trying to find reasons to be annoyed with something that isn't really a concern?
I'm not even a massive fan of the soft kind of polystyrene GW uses for their models anyway. The material is not important to me, price and quality are. Especially living in Australia where 10 space marines cost ~$62AUD, 10 models for ~$25AUD is a steal.
If the quality of the models is not affected by the type of plastic used for the model, then i don't care. I don't see glue type as affecting quality.
"Humanity's Insignificance pales in comparison to its Ego." (Sir Rumplestiltskin)
"The capacity to think does not assign importance to your thoughts, it merely indicates you can." (Sir Rumplestiltskin)
I just hope stuff like the Werewolves and Trolls are half as good as the concept art for them.
Last edited by Grimmeth; 25-06-2012 at 13:22.
When they get them and attempt to use plastic glues on them - it doesn't work. Then I get a phone call, someone showing up on my porch or cornered the next time I am out and about. If it is a capillary cement - no harm, no foul. The liquid evaporates and they can go ahead and use either CA or 5 minute epoxy. If they used a filling cement (as that is popular with a lot of people) there is a bit of messy clean up since the solids in the cement form a bit of a mess when there isn't plastic to bond to. Some of them are completely put off since the reason they like the idea of Mantic was proper plastic at prices which are reasonable.
Regarding the toy soldiers (most of the old stuff was polypropylene or polyethylene - neither of which worked with plastic cement) - the vast majority of them had no assembly, or minimal assembly required. For the past decade though, the main manufacturers have actually switched to a softer polystyrene formula which allows the low cost tooling as well as regular plastic cements.
The marketing of the plastic cements is there. That is how the market perceives things. That being the case - anyone who enters the market needs to go where it is, not try to bend the market to meet their opinions. That is just the reality of dealing with consumers. I mean, if you want to get right down to it - pretty much anything that isn't metal is plastic. I could use squish molds and Super Sculpey and call them plastic miniatures...but that isn't what the market actually thinks of when they think of plastic. I would be technically correct, but it would be misleading (though to be fair - if I were to do that, it would be less misleading as about half of the plastic cements I have used actually do work with Sculpey and other polymer clays).
Call it whatever they want - just use a name that can not be confused with another popular material. I don't mind working with pretty much anything that is out there now (the PE and PP are pretty annoying - though those are few and far between now). It makes things a lot easier for people who are trying to get information out regarding their miniatures. Like I said before though, I would prefer them to actually call it specifically what it is (urethane, vinyl...whatever they happened to settle on).
Second, there are tons of good names they could use that say "plastic, but different":
Type 2 Plastic
"Plastrium: Material of the future"
Just choose something. Even "Sprueless Plastic" works so long as they use it consistently.
I would also advise Mantic not to follow in Privateer Press's footsteps in anything. Ditto the historicals manufacturers.
Member of J.A.D.E.DTrying to convince Warseer that GW are anything less than perfect is like trying to teach a horde of zombies that lettuce is a perfectly acceptable alternative to brains.
Lest we forget
I vote for Epicplast (Epicast would roll off the tongue better but sounds like a reskinned name for Finecrap). But Plastrium is pretty awesome.