Price for future release

[EmperorNorton]

You need to get out of your GW mindset - GW market Polystyrene Cement as 'plastic glue'. No-one else does.

Revell does.

[AlexHolker]

You need to get out of your GW mindset - GW market Polystyrene Cement as 'plastic glue'. No-one else does.

"Revell Contacta Professional
Liquid cement for plastics"

[mattjgilbert]

It clearly doesn't work on all plastics though. Liquid Poly or Polystyrene cement is only intended for Polystyrene!

[Sean_OBrien]

You need to get out of your GW mindset - GW market Polystyrene Cement as 'plastic glue'. No-one else does.
It specifically states on the Kickstarter page that all the new plastic mini's will be sprueless plastic - there's no misleading going on here. Just people not taking the time to read the details through.

http://www.testors.com/category/1366...nt_for_Plastic

Pretty much everyone who makes a solvent cement for plastics calls it plastic cement - not polystyrene cement. There is a reason for that.

Calling it sprueless plastic (or quite often just plastic) does confuse people (even people who come to these and other forums are confused by it). I like Mantic - like them as a company a bunch. This is the one spot that they bug me though - as when I tell people to check out Mantic, I then have to also make it clear that there are a bunch of their plastic miniatures which are not plastic...they are resin. Then I have to help them decipher which ones are which (after all, elite armies is about as helpful as a term as sprueless is). A term which is not confusing to your average bum off the streets would make things much easier for getting the word out about them.

[scarletsquig]

What would you suggest calling it, then? It's easy to go on about why it's bad, but much harder to think of a working solution.

Agree that "Plastic" is confusing, but "Sprueless Plastic" works well enough.

Can't call it "resin" because it isn't, and when you do that, Mantic gets bombarded with everyone jumping to the conclusion that is it exactly like Citadel Finecast. That *the first* question any person who is familiar with GW products asks as soon as they hear the word "resin". Mantic was using the term "resin plastic" just fine until GW came along and created a "resin = bubble-filled, miscast, overpriced, bendy, fragile material" perception amongst your average gamer which tainted the "resin plastic" term Mantic was using by association.

I'm not making this up, I have lost count of the amount of times I have seen "so, like finecast, then?" in response to seeing the words "resin plastic".

A trade name like "Manticast" or whatever is just completely and utterly confusing, and gives the consumer zero information about anything.

All Mantic products are clearly labelled with the requirement to use superglue where this is required.

Privateer Press has been calling a similar type of stuff to what Mantic uses "Plastic" for several years now without any problems... other than a bunch of initial rants about the lack of sprues and need for superglue, Warmachine players have mostly been quite happy about it.

Easier transition for their market though, since as an all-metal company previously, everyone was using superglue for everything anyway.

As for superglue allergies, it is unfortunate, but there are good alternatives, such as epoxy adhesive... I use this stuff anyway, despite not having any allergies, a bit of alraldite makes damned sure that anything you want glued, stays glued.

Finally, there are a lot of *historical* plastic kits, ones which do come on sprues, that can't be glued using Polystyrene cement, because they are not polystyrene.

I have a set of 10mm ACW that needs superglue, there are literally hundreds of 1/72 historical kits that require superglue as well.

So, even with people coming at this from a perspective of Airfix kits and historicals there is an established familiarity with "plastic that doesn't work with plastic glue".

[Grimmeth]

http://www.testors.com/category/1366...nt_for_Plastic

Pretty much everyone who makes a solvent cement for plastics calls it plastic cement - not polystyrene cement. There is a reason for that.

Calling it sprueless plastic (or quite often just plastic) does confuse people (even people who come to these and other forums are confused by it). I like Mantic - like them as a company a bunch. This is the one spot that they bug me though - as when I tell people to check out Mantic, I then have to also make it clear that there are a bunch of their plastic miniatures which are not plastic...they are resin. Then I have to help them decipher which ones are which (after all, elite armies is about as helpful as a term as sprueless is). A term which is not confusing to your average bum off the streets would make things much easier for getting the word out about them.

Well I stand corrected there, but that's still more a flaw with their marketing of a product than anything else - as Scarletsquig has said - there are plenty of Plastic models (and likely lots more types of plastic) that can't be glued with 'plastic glue'.
I'm still not entirely sure what peoples problem with Mantic calling their sprueless plastics Plastic is? Just seems that people are trying to find reasons to be annoyed with something that isn't really a concern?

[Hellebore]

I'm not even a massive fan of the soft kind of polystyrene GW uses for their models anyway. The material is not important to me, price and quality are. Especially living in Australia where 10 space marines cost ~$62AUD, 10 models for ~$25AUD is a steal.

If the quality of the models is not affected by the type of plastic used for the model, then i don't care. I don't see glue type as affecting quality.

Hellebore

[Grimmeth]

I'm not even a massive fan of the soft kind of polystyrene GW uses for their models anyway. The material is not important to me, price and quality are. Especially living in Australia where 10 space marines cost ~$62AUD, 10 models for ~$25AUD is a steal.

If the quality of the models is not affected by the type of plastic used for the model, then i don't care. I don't see glue type as affecting quality.

Hellebore

Even if we ignore Australian GW pricing madness - 10 good quality models (Or 3 monstrous models) for around £16 is acceptable to me - especially considering Mantic have a nice habit of knocking more money off for buying multiple packs.
I just hope stuff like the Werewolves and Trolls are half as good as the concept art for them.

[Sean_OBrien]

I'm still not entirely sure what peoples problem with Mantic calling their sprueless plastics Plastic is? Just seems that people are trying to find reasons to be annoyed with something that isn't really a concern?

My problem is that I end up being the local customer support for them. I tell a lot of people about Mantic. Many of them order their stuff through 3rd party websites (not many stores carry them locally yet - and a lot of people are not huge fans of the overseas shipping lottery). Most 3rd party sites do not have any additional information regarding the makeup or material of the miniatures.

When they get them and attempt to use plastic glues on them - it doesn't work. Then I get a phone call, someone showing up on my porch or cornered the next time I am out and about. If it is a capillary cement - no harm, no foul. The liquid evaporates and they can go ahead and use either CA or 5 minute epoxy. If they used a filling cement (as that is popular with a lot of people) there is a bit of messy clean up since the solids in the cement form a bit of a mess when there isn't plastic to bond to. Some of them are completely put off since the reason they like the idea of Mantic was proper plastic at prices which are reasonable.

Regarding the toy soldiers (most of the old stuff was polypropylene or polyethylene - neither of which worked with plastic cement) - the vast majority of them had no assembly, or minimal assembly required. For the past decade though, the main manufacturers have actually switched to a softer polystyrene formula which allows the low cost tooling as well as regular plastic cements.

The marketing of the plastic cements is there. That is how the market perceives things. That being the case - anyone who enters the market needs to go where it is, not try to bend the market to meet their opinions. That is just the reality of dealing with consumers. I mean, if you want to get right down to it - pretty much anything that isn't metal is plastic. I could use squish molds and Super Sculpey and call them plastic miniatures...but that isn't what the market actually thinks of when they think of plastic. I would be technically correct, but it would be misleading (though to be fair - if I were to do that, it would be less misleading as about half of the plastic cements I have used actually do work with Sculpey and other polymer clays).

Call it whatever they want - just use a name that can not be confused with another popular material. I don't mind working with pretty much anything that is out there now (the PE and PP are pretty annoying - though those are few and far between now). It makes things a lot easier for people who are trying to get information out regarding their miniatures. Like I said before though, I would prefer them to actually call it specifically what it is (urethane, vinyl...whatever they happened to settle on).

[Max Jet]

Well I stand corrected there, but that's still more a flaw with their marketing of a product than anything else - as Scarletsquig has said - there are plenty of Plastic models (and likely lots more types of plastic) that can't be glued with 'plastic glue'.
I'm still not entirely sure what peoples problem with Mantic calling their sprueless plastics Plastic is? Just seems that people are trying to find reasons to be annoyed with something that isn't really a concern?

Dude.. I am asking nothing more than for them doing it CONSISTENTLY (Which they do not, even when asked IN PERSON I get answers like "Oh the Corporation marines will be out in plastic!"). That's all. Not a great thing to ask for, isn't it? Just call them sprueless plastic and STICK to it. As soon as they do so I will stop complaining, it's that simple!

[BobtheInquisitor]

What would you suggest calling it, then? It's easy to go on about why it's bad, but much harder to think of a working solution.
....

I'm not making this up, I have lost count of the amount of times I have seen "so, like finecast, then?" in response to seeing the words "resin plastic".

A trade name like "Manticast" or whatever is just completely and utterly confusing, and gives the consumer zero information about anything.

All Mantic products are clearly labelled with the requirement to use superglue where this is required.

Privateer Press has been calling a similar type of stuff to what Mantic uses "Plastic" for several years now without any problems... other than a bunch of initial rants about the lack of sprues and need for superglue, Warmachine players have mostly been quite happy about it.

Easier transition for their market though, since as an all-metal company previously, everyone was using superglue for everything anyway.

As for superglue allergies, it is unfortunate, but there are good alternatives, such as epoxy adhesive... I use this stuff anyway, despite not having any allergies, a bit of alraldite makes damned sure that anything you want glued, stays glued.

Finally, there are a lot of *historical* plastic kits, ones which do come on sprues, that can't be glued using Polystyrene cement, because they are not polystyrene.

I have a set of 10mm ACW that needs superglue, there are literally hundreds of 1/72 historical kits that require superglue as well.

So, even with people coming at this from a perspective of Airfix kits and historicals there is an established familiarity with "plastic that doesn't work with plastic glue".

First of all, what was wrong with "restic"? I've never seen anyone confuse that contraction with "Finecast".

Second, there are tons of good names they could use that say "plastic, but different":

White Plastic

Techniplastic

Advanced Plastic

Duraplastic

Type 2 Plastic

Superplastic

"Plastrium: Material of the future"

Economedia

Premium Plastic

Mastercast/ Masterplas

Just choose something. Even "Sprueless Plastic" works so long as they use it consistently.

I would also advise Mantic not to follow in Privateer Press's footsteps in anything. Ditto the historicals manufacturers.

[Max Jet]

"Plastrium: Material of the future"

Here, take this!

[shelfunit.]

Here, take this!

Is it made from Plastrium?

[darkPrince010]

I vote for Epicplast (Epicast would roll off the tongue better but sounds like a reskinned name for Finecrap). But Plastrium is pretty awesome.