Packmaster/Giant Rat Hit Randomization

[Grey Seer Kwokka]

So the (Skaven) rulebook says in regards to shooting attacks or hits distributed as per shooting...

"Roll a D6; 1-4 hits a Giant Rat, 5-6 hits a Packmaster. If there are other models within the unit, then these are further randomized."

OK, but how are they "further randomized"? Let's say that I have a Warlord on a Great Pox Rat in a unit of 40 Giant Rats, with 8 Packmasters. How do we resolve 20 standard ballistic skill hits (non-template) coming in during the shooting phase?

As an additional spanner in the works, the current BRB states that shooting attacks where LOS does not apply (where it would not here) can be allocated one to a model until all models have one, and then the second hit for each in the same fashion,et al; this is done by the controlling player. Does this mean that I could simply "choose" where these hits go within the unit if my 48 + 1 strong combined unit gets shot at, and that I can simply ignore that the Warlord ever getting hit at my own discretion unless there are enough hits to spread to all individual models in that one phase?

[Mr_Rose]

I'd say you allocate the twenty hits between the 49 models in the unit as though the rats and pack masters were indistinguishable then for the ones that hit them, randomise using their own rule.

That is, for your example, the pox rat riding character would only get one hit, and only then if you wanted him to. The enemy would have t score fifty hits before there was a chance he'd take a second.

The other option, I guess, is to treat Infantry characters as part of the "pack master" group for the initial roll, then either allocate from there or come up with another way of randomising between the pack masters and character at that point. But that all seems a bit silly to me.

[T10]

In my opinion:

First randomize each of the 20 hits between Giant Rats and Pack Masters (including "other models") with the 1-4/5-6 ratio. It seems reasonable to assume that characters in the unit fall among the Pack Masters' group.

Any hits among the Pack Masters you then randomize as best you can between the actual Pack Masters and the "other models" with an equal chance to hit any given model.

The whole "randomization" stuff is a part of 7th edition mechanics where shooting hits were randomized (after as many as possible were distributed evenly, mind you).

-T10

[underscore]

Just as an additional question, how would you deal with a Master Moulder in a pack of Giant Rats? The randomise rule seems to contradict the 'champion in all respects' note on him, which would normally mean that he can't be shot until there's only 5 rats left.

I'm presuming that the army book rule overrides the main rulebook and he can be hit on a roll. But I also presume he gets a Look Out Sir! save from it, am I right?

[T10]

I can only assume that any hits among the Pack Masters are first further randomized between the group of Pack Masters and any characters (as per the instructions), and any remaining hits are allocated among them as for normal shooting.

So:

1. Randomize between rats (1-4) and Pack Masters (5-6). I assume the Pack Masters group here includes rank-and-file, any champion and any characters.
2. Randomize between Pack Masters and characters. I assume the Pack Masters group here includes rank-and-file and any champion.
3. Allocate hits among Pack Masters as normal: Even distribution, any champion can only be allocated hits if there are less than 5 rank-and-file Pack Masters.

-T10

[underscore]

Ah. ok. That seems odd but makes sense. So a MM on his own in a pack of Giant Rats wouldn't get a save because, from what you're saying, he should be considered a champion of packmasters, not of Giant Rats?

[gorblud]

isn't it 1-4 monster or monstrous things, 5 'crew' and 6 on character?

[T10]

No.

-T10

[Karolinen]

Packmaster=rank & file troop

Master moulder = Champion ( not a character)

Champion = The champion is always removed last ( unless specifically targeted by an attack)

You can only have one master moulder in a unit, the rest are packmasters. When packmasters gone, the mastermoulder is next to go.

[underscore]

Yep, makes sense. Was just a bit confused as to whether a 'mixed unit' means a unit of mixed models or whether it's two units mixed together. Clearly it's the latter (i.e. a unit of packmasters mixed with a unit of RO/GRs). Cheers.