Tactica Generalis 6th Edition

[Stezerok]

As a preface, I'm unsure if this belongs here or in the rumor forum. I put it here since we've already got a very steady foundation of confirmed rules to work off of, and since I figured the rumor thread on 6th ed rumors is just rumors, this thread will hopefully be appropriate. I'd like this thread to be specifically focused on how people believe the confirmed rules changes will affect the general tactics of 40k. It should be a thread of predictions, projections, and innovative ideas. It's not for wishlisting, griping, or rumor questions.

Overall the goal should be to take a broad overview, regardless of race, and see what tactics can be deduced from the rules/weapon types/unit types. Race specifics should be avoided (for the most part) to ensure the thread doesn't devolve into "Army X gets nerfed so hard" while "Army Y gets buffed so much." Questions we should ask and answer are things like: how will the changes to vehicles durability, speeds, and embarkation/disembarkation affect the meta? Does "Hammer of Wrath" make jump infantry viable assault units that we should all look out for? Or is it just a gimmick? How will HS and FA choices scoring in certain missions affect FOC choices?

Since this is a prediction and projection thread atm, there will be a lot of opinions and "I think"s, but this also means that the best arguments will be those with greater mathematical support, or clear logical validity. Hopefully based off this thread we can all work together to build innovative new ideas, and break curves/see trends before they happen.

To pre-empt any side-issues that could bog the thread down the official rumor thread is here: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...cussion-thread
and the best source I've seen for rumor confirmations is here (the guy even included a pic of his acc name and the rulebook itself in a link he posted):
http://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/co...ama/?limit=500

[Marshal Augustine]

The introduction of hull points really makes the destruction of vehicles something that can be more calculated, I like this as it tones them down although tanks are still pretty good especially at the start of the game, and with potential ongoing night fight for multiple turns they could actually be living longer than not. The fact that glances only remove a hull pt does mean that tanks can eventually get wrecked due to a flurry of glancing hits, but on a random glance that is the only thing happening to the tank, no more immobilized or stunned or what not making tanks more invulnerable to glances in the short term.

[Clarkson]

the glance rule makes necrons with their 30" range on the move means your transports wont last long.

[gutsmaka]

fliers may become the meta. there are transport fliers and destroyer fliers, plus they are much harder to hit and kill. necrons may kill the tank meta

[Stezerok]

I'm glad to see some good responses to kick this off! I definitely agree that between the introduction of Hull Points and the proliferation of anti-tank weapons that have high rate of fire (or at the least a high chance of glancing+...) the tank meta will definitely change. I think a shift to a flyer meta will definitely be interesting, but I'm curious what you all think about transport flyers like Stormravens? With only 2 Hull Points, and the possibility of models inside taking Str 10 AP 1 hits upon it's destruction while Zooming, I'm unsure if transport flyers are worth it. I think any shift to flyers will be primarily to gunboat flyers (SM Stormtalon, Ork Bomma, etc... maybe even the BA Stormraven kitted as an empty gunboat...) Do you think the flyer rules on a transport will make the risk worth it? What about once Skyfire weapons hit the meta?

[DeviantApostle]

The potential problem with Transport fliers is the same one we saw back in 4th edition where transports were essentially mobile coffins for whatever was placed in them. If you get your armour save against that S10 hit, though, Stormravens aren't about to ruin your day unless you happen to roll a 1 for an IC, sgt. or special weapon, so the viability is still there if the rumours are right. But it is a risk, particularly for more expensive models.

edit: Oh, conversely Valkyries take a kick thanks to this. Stormtroopers/Vets go squish... though, if they come in on reserve and immediately drop the unit via grav chutes before the enemy shooting phase, you eliminate the risk, IIRC.

[madival]

If flyers become the meta, you will see more things like storm lord that just does straight hits to people instead of having to shoot at them. Also, you would need something for reserves or else come in piece by piece. If the formula for hull points is correct , most flyers have 1-2 hull points means a glance or two and it is dead.

[Sami]

And now the Necron flyer rule about passengers going back in reserve makes sense. A ward codex with penalties? Never

As for the fear of Gauss, assuming long range shots (24")

1 shot, 2/3 chance to hit (assuming BS4), 1/6 chance to glance. That's an 11% chance per shot to remove a hull point, which isn't exactly game changing. Against anything that needs 6s to hit it's a 3% chance per shot of removing a hull point.

[Chapters Unwritten]

I think you are going to see more viable opportunities for foot armies. It's easier to get cover and night fighting rules will be in effect for more games (now affecting that cover I believe). Your squad composition and movement will allow you to ensure only the "scrub" models take it on the chin as you advance. The 24" rapid fire range means you can dance around targets a bit more (especially assault-centric ones) and whittle them down.

Jump infantry being as good as they are I think we will see a good number of armies add a compliment of jumpers to their lists.

One thing I foresee is that a lot of folks are going to go flyer-crazy, just because many of us have existing armies and the flyer kits are new options for a lot of them. Since we don't already have some flyers, a lot of folks are probably going to be buying them to try them out and I predict a brief "flyermania" period where a lot of us will have tough times with them en masse.

Snap fire hitting on 6s along with flyers being hit on 6s seems to me that there is no downside to snap-firing them at every opportunity; I predict this will become a bit of a tactic for long-range AT units without ideal targets.

I expect people to opt less and less for transports against Necrons. I expect Nids to do well despite the changes, too, so I'd expect to see more of both.

I'd gear up to face Necrons a lot; they seem to be the new hotness at the moment.

[Spiney Norman]

And now the Necron flyer rule about passengers going back in reserve makes sense. A ward codex with penalties? Never

As for the fear of Gauss, assuming long range shots (24")

1 shot, 2/3 chance to hit (assuming BS4), 1/6 chance to glance. That's an 11% chance per shot to remove a hull point, which isn't exactly game changing. Against anything that needs 6s to hit it's a 3% chance per shot of removing a hull point.

But it does mean that several units of Necrons between them can destroy any vehicle that comes against them, crons were already good at removing vehicles because of scarabs, but gauss is going to seriously hurt the mech meta.

[stereynolds]

Surely though Sami the Stormlord and his blob squad of 20 relentless warriors WILL glance a vehicle to death every turn?

[Sami]

And you've just dropped 485 points to remove said vehicle. That's a single unit you need to tie up in CC and half of your points is wasted (Stormlord can keep on generating the lightning). Split them in to 2 squads and now it's much easier to remove them from play as dropping 10 models in a phase to negate reanimation protocols is much easier than dropping 20.

And Stephen, you know better than to mention the word "Stormlord" near me. I'm putting together very fiddly models at the moment and could do without snapping them in rage

[Tzeentch2003]

Non-flying vehicles are now vastly more vulnerable to close combat than before. Between hitting on a 3+ at worst and glance-to-kill, anything that can generate a decent number of S4 hits will wreck a vehicle with AV10 on the charge. For Tyranids this has the potential to unlock a respectable number of new builds, since little bugs should become viable threats to mech.

[Sequence]

I've been thinking about vehicles and MCs only needing 25% concealment to get a cover save. It's going to be so much easier getting cover saves with them now, and that's going to make them that bit more resilient to shooting.

That's going to help monstrous creatures get into close combat, might see more of them being played.

[madival]

I've been thinking about vehicles and MCs only needing 25% concealment to get a cover save. It's going to be so much easier getting cover saves with them now, and that's going to make them that bit more resilient to shooting.

That's going to help monstrous creatures get into close combat, might see more of them being played.

Double edged sword. Cover goes down too. Also, with "hp" being involved, vehicles have a shelf life.

[Tzeentch2003]

Cover goes down, but under the previous rules it was basically impossible to get cover for most MCs anyway. Certainly all of the Tyranid MCs are too large to ever reliably get 50% coverage.

[madival]

Cover goes down, but under the previous rules it was basically impossible to get cover for most MCs anyway. Certainly all of the Tyranid MCs are too large to ever reliably get 50% coverage.

Mc's get s buff, but they need it. Vehicles are gettin a woopin though

[Tzeentch2003]

Mc's get s buff, but they need it. Vehicles are gettin a woopin though

... and vehicles needed it.

[madival]

... and vehicles needed it.

They honestly did. No more single defilers marching across the field surviving 10+ glances or pens because the opposing player can't roll above a 1-2 to damage to save their life and it makes sense gameplay and sense wise to do such. After so many potentially deadly shots, even the finest tuned of machines will stop working.

[fwacho]

... and vehicles needed it.

agreed. and My nidzilla list is going to get even meaner.