My wraithlords are incredibly happy about the new cover rules. I can count on one hand how many times I got a cover save in 5th.
My wraithlords are incredibly happy about the new cover rules. I can count on one hand how many times I got a cover save in 5th.
My painting log, Alaitoc Eldar and Dark Angels:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...89#post5897489
Originally Posted by Cthell
I don't think flyers will be as dominating as regular vehicles were in the 5th. Yes, they can fire 4 weapons per turn, at full BS, and presumably it can shoot at other fliers with full BS, but flyers that zoom must move 18"-36" and can only pivot 90 degrees max before moving that round. And if it has to fly off the board, it goes back into reserves, which made lead to complications. That means your goin to be strafing a lot, and going back into reserves, and comin back, or circling the board, either way, it won't always be facing the direction you want on the round you want, meaning wasted firing opportunity. Also, I'd just expect to see units in every army getting the Skyfire ability Faq'd into their profiles, or at least some way of getting it. Also, I'm going to assume that if a flyer is hovering, it might lose its needs 6's to hit status.
So Flyers, powerful, but I don't see them dominating the meta. Frankly, given the rule changes, actual balanced lists might be the new meta.
This.
Time over target is going to be a big part of flyer strategy. Knowing how to maximize your effective shooting, and when it's appropriate to accelerate back into reserves to come in for another pass, will quickly separate the aces from the rookies.
Indeed. Flyers will prove to be a very interesting unit with a bit more thought required than most. A good player with a maneuverable army will be able to run circles around a newbie with a flyer all day, avoiding his shooting by staying out of his 180 degree firing arc or being within 18" of the front, or tricking him into running off the board by baiting him with juicy targets.
The addition of intercepting skyfire guns on buy-able terrain should stop flyers being too invincible as well, so that they don't become 6th Ed cheese.
I'm most worried about complete flyer spam (I'm looking at you scythewing). It will be hard for balanced lists to take down that many flyers and you should have enough flyers to make sure that you always have at least 1 pointed in any 1 direction so they will be hard to avoid. Of course trying to juggle that many flyer movement phases will inevitably lead to some slip-ups
Last edited by Enigma6; 27-06-2012 at 15:05.
Really depends on the army list. I can see traditional razorback mech marine list having to undergo some serious changes.
A lot of Imperial Guard players though are still probably going to come at everyone with tonnes and tonnes of tanks. Hydras flak battery's are the most likely candidate in the game for the sky fire rule and vendettas will eat most other fliers in dogfights. Despite how strong Necron gauss weapons are, massed ordnance is just as strong at wrecking necron phalanx's. You'll probably see a few less melta vets sitting in Chimera's and a few more blobbed up imperial guard platoons though.
Anyone know how blasts aim at flyers ?
"Of course you fight fire with fire. You fight everything with fire!"
lesserofallevils.blogspot.com My warhammer gaming blog.
They can't. Only weapons that can make Snap Shots can target flyers (as long as they are swooping, if they are hovering, as some can, they can be shot at as normal vehicles), and Blast, Large Blast and Template can't be shot as Snap Shots. Unless they also have the Skyfire rule.
Last edited by Jorgandr; 27-06-2012 at 22:22.
Im more confused on how everyone knows the "rules" from my understanding I thought 6th edition comes out on Saturday. Where is everyone getting the rules??
I'm a game store worker.The rulebooks got delivered to us yesterday, and I have one in my lap now. We can't sell them to customers yet, but there is nothing hindering me from reading my own copy.
Postal systems are strange at best and dealers or people with early access have them already. Some preorders always arrive early and people like to wiggle their sixth edition in our faces
"Of course you fight fire with fire. You fight everything with fire!"
lesserofallevils.blogspot.com My warhammer gaming blog.
Yea im not wasting money buying 6th edition when I can use my store copy
While I normally loath any sort of edition tacticas and rules threads before the release, I think for once we've got enough to go on. So adding to the thread hopefully...
Not sure if it has been said, but from what we've seen so far, it seems there is some better balance to the game but the two big things that all armies will need to be prepared for are ways to deal with 2+ armour, and flyers. While with allies and the new missions the game is really pushing balanced armies that can truely hit all comers, I believe these two areas are two that need particularly panning or they will run wild on you.
I definitely agree with the flyers and the 2+ armor problem. Realistically if every army gets some anti-flyer unit then it will become a matter of trying to kill the enemies AA guns until your flyers come in from reserves (not an all-too-easy task,) or if your own flyers ARE your AA guns then simply having your flyers duking it out over the battlefield until either someone withdraws to Ongoing Reserves or loses will be the determining factor. Either way, if someone's AA guns go down before the enemies flyers are either weakened or put down, things could get very ugly. We may very well see 2 such AA unit per army in the new meta. The interesting thing as you point out GodlessM is the balance of the edition (how well it's actually balanced we'll see, but theoretically at least it looks to be moving that way...) since dedicating about 2 units to handling enemy flyers means that there are two units that are not going to be particularly useful for killing other things--as I had heard it Skyfire weapons had some drawback for shooting ground targets (correct me if I'm wrong.)
As for 2+ armored units, the answer to these will be a proliferation of ap 2 weaponry, which means we may well see a return of the plasma edition. The problem will come in two forms then: TH/SS termies, who will have to be taken out simply by dedicating a LOT of anti-infantry fire to them; or the mass infantry lists, since the natural response to low ap/low rate of fire weapons is the alternative of taking more bodies that are less tough. We may see Terminators take to the field en masse (especially with Grey Knights and Dark Angels) but eventually the meta will shift in response and we may see alternatively mass infantry PA Marines, etc.
To the righteous we bring hope, to the tainted we bring fire." Castellan Garran Crowe
About fliers only being hit by snapfire/skyfire. How does the Doomscythe's work on them? I'm really super tired right now... but wont it be awesome at taking out other fliers? It auto hits and is pretty much gonna kill any flier it hits.
That will probably be FAQ/Errata'd. I've no real way of knowing at this point :/
To the righteous we bring hope, to the tainted we bring fire." Castellan Garran Crowe
I'm pretty sure plasma spam will return as the guns are absolutely worth their inflated price now. Bikers may be very happy, especially now that they count their modified toughness for instant death purposes. I'm already considering a librarian, 10 assault marines, and 3 biker Sanguinary Priests from the Blood Angels dex to increase the survivability of my bikes.
"Reason is a thing of God, inasmuch as there is nothing which God the Maker of all has not provided, disposed, ordained by reason - nothing which He has not willed should be handled and understood by reason" Quintus Tertullian
I can see a few people boxing their LR Executioners up for this edition what with Leman Russ only getting 3 hull points and overheats causing a glance on vehicles 50% of the time, lots of self melted tanks ahoy I think
Plasma actually deals a Glancing Hit on a FURTHER roll of a 1-3 after rolling the initial 1 for Get's Hot. Despite the 3 HP's, the Executioner is actually quite good.
To the righteous we bring hope, to the tainted we bring fire." Castellan Garran Crowe
Yeah I think you do have to take into account that you're just going to be seeing a lot more Terminators this edition, too, so the value goes up. Terminators have always been pretty popular regardless of how good they actually were, as long as they weren't terrible (which really only happened in early 3rd), because ... people just love them, and the rules have buffed them substantially for 6th. Everyone who played or has played Space Marines probably has like 10 power fist/storm bolter Termies collecting dust somewhere that are now going to grace the table again. That right there increases the value of the Executioner in spite of the fact that it can kill itself. (Also note: Average number of shots fired before the Executioner literally kills itself is 36, although of course it may lose hull points from enemy shooting, but it's still only likely to remove 1.5 of its own hull points in the average game if it fires the cannon every turn, and that isn't awful--especially since that requires surviving until Turn 6 and keeping your gun pew-pewin' that entire time, in which case you've done something right.)
I still wouldn't say plasma spam will be the new hotness outside of SM armies, though; IMO Gets Hot! is too risky to put plasma on anything with worse than a 3+ save, or like 4+ and Feel no Pain. I've tried using IG Vets with 3 plasma and it consistently happens that by the end of the game two of those guys have killed themselves; if it happens early in the game it's been a pretty big waste of points (model+gun). I'd far rather use sniper rifles in 6th as they're much cheaper and got a minor buff, or grenade launchers as they have a pretty fair chance of glancing any light-ish vehicle and stripping HP off, on anything with a 5+ or even a 4+ save. (This is, of course, provided you don't have reliable way to give them re-rolls to hit, e.g. Discipline of Divination's Primaris Power). It's also worth noting that multi-shot weapons that wound T4 on a 2+ are also pretty much always an efficient way to deal with Terminators, as well as massed cheap firepower of other kinds, and Rending.
It will be interesting to see what happens in the long run with this situation. As above I predict at first that many SM players will be spamming all kinds of Terminators. It may happen that the meta shifts to counter this and eventually they lose popularity; we'll have to wait and see, and it depends largely on how efficient the counters are.
How Flayed Ones infiltrate:
Something that came to my mind when reading the Challenge rules it that it seems to me that units that heavily depend on their character to do most of the killing (e.g. with a Power Fist or Power Axe) now will have a very hard time against single ICs, as the IC will challenge, proceed to beat the character into the ground, as it usually is faster and the re-rolls won't matter, (or laugh as he hides) and is then virtually impervious to the rest of the unit.
Am I reading it wrong or is there a trivial solution to the problem?
Last edited by Sgt John Keel; 01-07-2012 at 11:38.
“There's a hole in the world. Feels like we ought to have known.”
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