4th Edition Eldar in 6th Edition

[Austinitor]

What do other Eldar players make of the rumored changes?

Some things I've noticed:

• Eldar jetbikes may be able to turboboost 36" for a total of 48" of movement (claimed in the Reddit "I am a"). Seemingly confirmed here: http://i48.tinypic.com/2jdrfyp.png (thanks @chizal)
• Witchblade armor penetration has been reduced to str+2d6 (average 10, ceiling 16) from 9+d6 (average 12.5, ceiling 15) (again, from Reddit)
• Rapid fire weapons can outrange our shuriken catapults AND move
• Jetbike shuriken cannon "move shoot move" seems riskier, as the move back is random
• Fleet now allows a re-roll of one assault move/charge die
• Our vehicles, spare Vypers with two, have three hullpoints.
• Our fast vehicles can move cruising speed and shoot two weapons (this helps Vypers and Falcons)
• We can snap fire to take charges
• We have access to core psychic disciplines that may allow full BS for overwatch/snap fire
• We may be able to use two FoCs in 2000 point games (how common such games are in your locality will vary).
• It would seem that fire points have been nerfed (i.e. BS1 is moving cruising speed). As we have none, perhaps this is a good thing for us.
• A 6" move after disembarkation is interesting. "Firedragon suicide squads" seem largely un-effected, as their transport will now move 6" (and pivot) and then they'll file out another 6".
• I saw something on BoLS this morning (6/28) that indicated that only "two handed chainswords" (e.g. for the Exarch) are given AP values. I hope this has been misunderstood or will be FAQ-clarified.

[Gwyidion]

AP - is the same as AP3-6 against vehicles. Glances remove hull points: hawks and spiders get way better vs AV and AV12-, respectively. Scatter laser is better against AV12-. Reapers are ... ok? vs vehicles.

"sniper" rule allocated wounds on 6-to-hit. Rangers get AP1 on 6-to-hit. Synergises very well.

Wraithcannons improve as 2/3 of all results remove a hull point.

Harlequins... tread water, i guess.

AP3 power weapons mean banshees are worse than they were before.

DAs and Guardians are comparatively worse - they get nothing (that we know so far) and opposing rapid fire improves.

[Austinitor]

One thing I didn't mentioned: it is rumored that there is no chance of a Stunned/Shaken result on a Glancing Hit, as the damage table is only used when a Penetrating Hit is achieved. This makes The Holo-field much less commonly used, and I think, has to be seen to reduce its value.

That said, our transports are just as durable as those in other forces.

[Raulengrin]

I'm going to save my reactions until the FAQ comes out, as too much of the codex is rendered (next to) useless to be fair. If it stands the way it is, the codex may as well be "Codex: Eldar Allies" as every Dark Eldar and their grandmothers will be taking a seer. I know I will.

[sgtspiff]

Yeah best to wait for the FAQ. Then start whining.

The nice think about a new ed is that the stuff that has been in the bottom of a drawer now can get a chance.

If guardians actually get nerfed then it will be rangers all the way.

[DeviantApostle]

Pretty much forced to bring a Farseer, even if it was just for Runes of Witnessing to shut down all the marine shenannigans.

As far as CWE 6th edition, lots of things could improve. If the meta starts shying back away from transport spam, Eldar are in a good place to take advantage, even with an outdated codex.

If marines start walking more, for example, Dark Reapers make a comeback. AP3, ignoring cover or more shots, rumoured that Snap Fire lets heavy weapons shoot on overwatch, divination psychic power making them snap fire at their ballistic skill, fortifications alowing them to castle up... fun stuff.

The change to the vehicle damage table makes EMLs worse (chance of outright destroying a vehicle with a penetrating hit goes from 1/3 to 1/6) while Bright Lances stay the same. But Fire Dragons with Tank hunter get a +3 on the damage chart, meaning you'll get an explodes result off a penetration on a 3+.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, allied DE give you access to most of the insanely good combos we're wishing for, maybe more. Fortuned Archon with Shadowfield, for example. Ever want to tie up that expensive marine deathball? Fortuned Wyches. The list goes on.

Swooping Hawks may just get a heck of alot better, fingers crossed. Haywire Grenades on a Jump Infantry unit... let me tell you, they work wonderfully on my Wyches who don't get jump packs. When the Hawks start hitting vehicles on a 3+ the hard part will be keeping them alive through the reprisal. Hopefully, Intercept will allow them to hit fliers on a 4+. That's wreckage right there. Baharroth also gives them Hit and Run...

Warp Spiders get better with more people rocking Terminators. The spinnerette rifle will cut right on through them. In fact, if they get a shot at AV10, goodbye vehicles.

Speaking of, if the rumours are correct, Phoenix Lords get better. The buff to 2+ saves applies to them - no more power weapon spam fear. Fearless is no longer a detriment, since Fearless squads no longer take extra wounds from combat resolution. Jain Zar's Silent Death weapon... shoots at BS7, S5, AP2, 3 shots and on 6s she allocates who takes the wound (ICs can apparently do this now). Asurman is also a beast in a challenge with all his defensive powers, particularly if he's Fortuned. In fact, they're all better.

[sturguard]

Pretty much forced to bring a Farseer, even if it was just for Runes of Witnessing to shut down all the marine shenannigans.

As far as CWE 6th edition, lots of things could improve. If the meta starts shying back away from transport spam, Eldar are in a good place to take advantage, even with an outdated codex.

If marines start walking more, for example, Dark Reapers make a comeback. AP3, ignoring cover or more shots, rumoured that Snap Fire lets heavy weapons shoot on overwatch, divination psychic power making them snap fire at their ballistic skill, fortifications alowing them to castle up... fun stuff.

The change to the vehicle damage table makes EMLs worse (chance of outright destroying a vehicle with a penetrating hit goes from 1/3 to 1/6) while Bright Lances stay the same. But Fire Dragons with Tank hunter get a +3 on the damage chart, meaning you'll get an explodes result off a penetration on a 3+.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, allied DE give you access to most of the insanely good combos we're wishing for, maybe more. Fortuned Archon with Shadowfield, for example. Ever want to tie up that expensive marine deathball? Fortuned Wyches. The list goes on.

Swooping Hawks may just get a heck of alot better, fingers crossed. Haywire Grenades on a Jump Infantry unit... let me tell you, they work wonderfully on my Wyches who don't get jump packs. When the Hawks start hitting vehicles on a 3+ the hard part will be keeping them alive through the reprisal. Hopefully, Intercept will allow them to hit fliers on a 4+. That's wreckage right there. Baharroth also gives them Hit and Run...

Warp Spiders get better with more people rocking Terminators. The spinnerette rifle will cut right on through them. In fact, if they get a shot at AV10, goodbye vehicles.

Speaking of, if the rumours are correct, Phoenix Lords get better. The buff to 2+ saves applies to them - no more power weapon spam fear. Fearless is no longer a detriment, since Fearless squads no longer take extra wounds from combat resolution. Jain Zar's Silent Death weapon... shoots at BS7, S5, AP2, 3 shots and on 6s she allocates who takes the wound (ICs can apparently do this now). Asurman is also a beast in a challenge with all his defensive powers, particularly if he's Fortuned. In fact, they're all better.

Marines wont be walking more unless they are termies, they will be using Storm Ravens.

[Necronartum]

I think its a mixture of good and bad changes for us. I do feel that the bias is swung in favour of bad however. Everyone getting saves against our limited psychic potential, being able to move and shoot at a longer range than us and the reduction in cover saves leaves a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach! I just don't see how Deviant's quite well summarised good points can outweigh the bad!

Here's to hoping the errata goes some way to softening the blow! Otherwise, my Eldar may well be getting shelved until they get a new codex. 6th Edition will become MarineHammer.

[mercury14]

I think its a mixture of good and bad changes for us. I do feel that the bias is swung in favour of bad however. Everyone getting saves against our limited psychic potential, being able to move and shoot at a longer range than us and the reduction in cover saves leaves a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach! I just don't see how Deviant's quite well summarised good points can outweigh the bad!

Here's to hoping the errata goes some way to softening the blow! Otherwise, my Eldar may well be getting shelved until they get a new codex. 6th Edition will become MarineHammer.

I agree. And it's shocking how unplayably bad Guardians just got. We have to rely on 5+ cover and shuriken weapons are now a full notch worse than bolters? And fleet helps them ASSAULT?

And storm guardians get shot down when assaulting?

They're probably the worst unit in the game now.

[titilititi]

I couldn't have said it better... Why have I had that stupid idea of building my Ulthwe army list with keeping the 3rd ed. Craftworlds Eldar codex restrictions for the glory of fluff ?!

[Chrysalis]

Maybe taking guardians will allow us to take portals or force field generators as buildings? However, I guess they won't be much played until we get the new codex

[mercury14]

Maybe taking guardians will allow us to take portals or force field generators as buildings? However, I guess they won't be much played until we get the new codex

$5 says no, Guardians get nothing but the shaft.

[Athlan na Dyr]

Either that or we hope that the FAQ alters the stats of the Shuriken Catapult. I believe there were a few changes shown during the video with pictures of the rulebook (Multilasers to AP _ or somesuch?)
That said I do think such a thing happening before the codex will be a longshot to say the least.

Adding other things I've heard.
- Jink save. So long as our skimmers move (as in, at all) we get a 5+ cover save, which can be improved upon to a 4+. (or so is rumoured)
- Heard of a similar sort of think for jetbikes (again, only rumour can't remember if there were any confirmations or not).
- Sniping. Aside from the 'allocating wounds on a 6 to hit with snipers' the whole concept of removing casualties from the front means our faster tanks and jetbikes will be able to snipe out models on the flank reasonably effectively. Seeing as our units rarely rely on a single heavy/special weapon to make them work, the opposition cannot really do the same back to us, so this could work out as a reasonable advantage to us.
- Lack of wound allocation crap. Excuse me for a moment whilst I break character here...
OH MY *********** GOD YES! YES YES YES YES YEEEEEEESSSSSS!!!!!!
ahem. Not so much a buff to us, but a nerf to those that can. Indeed rumours state that if two multiwound models are wounded and the unit moves, they both die. Perhaps another potential use of faster shooters to spread out wound allocation?

[mercury14]

Indeed rumours state that if two multiwound models are wounded and the unit moves, they both die. Perhaps another potential use of faster shooters to spread out wound allocation?

Huh? I highly doubt this.

[TrangleC]

Huh? I highly doubt this.

I think Athlan na Dyr is talking about that fake rule set that came out months ago and has since been proven to have virtually nothing in common with the real 6th edition.

@ Athlan: Sorry, but you seem half a year behind with your knowledge about the current rumors and what has been confirmed by the last White Dwarf.

I'm not too worried about 6th actually. Our psykers are now actually some of the best in the game, the Nightwing will make a fearsome flyer hunter as it has a 4++ even against Skyfire units and most thing remain roughly the same. Guardians were terrible before, they remain so. Dire Avengers perhaps got a little boost. Fire Prisms are now moderately better now that a hit with a blast still counts at full strength etc. Not to mention we are getting a new codex next year and possibly a new flyer this year.

Our psykers have been some of the best in the game before. Others will catch up with 6th edition. I don't see that as a positive thing from the Eldar perspective.
And the Night Wing? What good does that do? Let's stick to stuff that is actually official 40k codex canon and can be played outside Apocalypse games without asking for permission first.

[TrangleC]

I think we will see more infantry and less vehicles again and hand in hand with that a change in the heavy weapons that get used. Less Missile Launchers, Lascannons and Meltas, more Assault Cannons and Heavy Bolters again. Thus Wraith Guards might get a lot more interesting. Not only will their guns pretty much surely kill every vehicle they fire at, but the fact that they are (at least with Fortune) virtually immune to small arms fire and very hard to kill with anything but anti vehicle guns, might make them quite useful.

Adding other things I've heard.
- Jink save. So long as our skimmers move (as in, at all) we get a 5+ cover save, which can be improved upon to a 4+. (or so is rumoured)
- Heard of a similar sort of think for jetbikes (again, only rumour can't remember if there were any confirmations or not).

Are you sure that isn't from that leaked PDF that had everybody excited months ago but doesn't have much to do with the real rulebook?

Warp Spiders get better with more people rocking Terminators. The spinnerette rifle will cut right on through them. In fact, if they get a shot at AV10, goodbye vehicles.

I don't really see how.
You get 20 to 22 shots with a full unit of Spiders. At average that makes 1.8 to 2 dead Terminators and only normal Terminators without Feel No Pain or 2 wounds each and all that stuff that exists nowadays.
I wouldn't call that "cutting right through them", especially not if you lose one of your spiders by jumping away afterwards, without even being shot at, as seems to happen every time I see somebody use Warp Spiders.

[DeviantApostle]

You get 20 to 22 shots with a full unit of Spiders...

Pardon me, my bad, I confused the Exarch's Spinnerette Rifle for the Death Spinners. Blegh, the rifle's what the Warp Spiders should be armed with anyway.

Speaking of which, with the new challenge rules Exarchs become rather tasty. And they get Look Out Sir on a 4+.

Oooooh... for those who think that Banshees are totally trashed, here's some light at the end of the tunnel depending on the vagaries of FAQs. Mirrorswords aren't power weapons, the codex simply states that they ignore armour saves. Still S3, though. Man, these girls needed Furious Charge, like, two editions ago... lol, literally.

edit: Also, everything Eldargal said above about Farseers is chip truth.

[Memnos]

Do Beasts move 2* the roll on 2d6 for the charge assault?

'Cause if so, they could get up to a 30 inch assault in a single turn. It looks like my flesh hound list may be super awesome this time around even with snap fire/overwatch.

[eldargal]

I'm not too worried about 6th actually. Our psykers are now actually some of the best in the game, the Nightwing will make a fearsome flyer hunter as it has a 4++ even against Skyfire units and most thing remain roughly the same. Guardians were terrible before, they remain so. Dire Avengers perhaps got a little boost. Fire Prisms are now moderately better now that a hit with a blast still counts at full strength etc. Not to mention we are getting a new codex next year and possibly a new flyer this year.

[mercury14]

I'm not too worried about 6th actually.

Our psykers are now actually some of the best in the game

Librarians are gaining access to all kinds of powers, including Telepathy and Divination. And they also get access to other schools. Basically they're getting access to Eldar-themed powers. Oh and they can easily ally with us and pick up a Farseer + Rangers/whatever. Again, our codex is sucking because the things that make Eldar unique are being shared.

Guardians were terrible before, they remain so.

They're much worse now. At least before they were playable in some lists as deep objective holders in cover.

Dire Avengers perhaps got a little boost.

How so? The SS Exarch went from AP2 to AP3, and they don't benefit from the +5 parry save. And they get shot when assaulting.

Fire Prisms are now moderately better now that a hit with a blast still counts at full strength etc.

Yeah I agree. And they get a 5+ cover save just for scooting over an inch every turn. I hadn't even thought about this.

Not to mention we are getting a new codex next year and possibly a new flyer this year.

The sooner the better. As time goes on things just don't work as planned and get weird.