4th Edition Eldar in 6th Edition

[Gwyidion]

I ran foot lists in 5th with the following:
eldrad
avatar
guardians
wraithlords
rangers
harlequins
wraithguard

and won more than i lost. Most of these units treaded water or improved. Haven't resolved the psyker powers/ avatar conundrum yet. The divination and telepathy power set could be pretty good for eldar, but fortune and doom are so good...

The biggest problem for a pure foot list is access to scatter lasers. With the nerf to guardians, there's no good place to get a scatter laser outside of the Vyper, WW, and Wraithlord... but all of those have drawbacks - namely, even three wraithlords only gets you 3 scatter lasers, which isn't enough. War walkers are fragile as all hell, and vypers are just as bad (although, OT matters less, as they will get glanced to death by bolters).

I might be able to make warp spiders work for S6 spam. I think the worst mission will be FA, because, even with buffs to Warp Spiders, our FA slot sucks, even more than our troops slot does.

I don't think swooping hawks will be viable. Even with the buffs to haywires, they're expensive and too fragile to be in assault like that.

Rangers and a doomseer are death on special weapons guys not in vehicles - sergeants and ICs in units can use the Look out sir! rule, but special and heavy weapon guys cannot.

Reapers got way better, both in a light AV-threatening role, and in anti MEQ, as hullpoints lets them kill transports on glances, and 5+ cover lets them hit MEQs... but some things still grant 4+ cover, so it remains to be seen just how often units will be in 5+. Focus fire is also a bonus, as it lets you demolish the half of squads not in cover.

[Aryllon]

I ran foot lists in 5th with the following:
eldrad
avatar
guardians
wraithlords
rangers
harlequins
wraithguard

and won more than i lost. Most of these units treaded water or improved. Haven't resolved the psyker powers/ avatar conundrum yet. The divination and telepathy power set could be pretty good for eldar, but fortune and doom are so good...

The biggest problem for a pure foot list is access to scatter lasers. With the nerf to guardians, there's no good place to get a scatter laser outside of the Vyper, WW, and Wraithlord... but all of those have drawbacks - namely, even three wraithlords only gets you 3 scatter lasers, which isn't enough. War walkers are fragile as all hell, and vypers are just as bad (although, OT matters less, as they will get glanced to death by bolters).

I might be able to make warp spiders work for S6 spam. I think the worst mission will be FA, because, even with buffs to Warp Spiders, our FA slot sucks, even more than our troops slot does.

I don't think swooping hawks will be viable. Even with the buffs to haywires, they're expensive and too fragile to be in assault like that.

Rangers and a doomseer are death on special weapons guys not in vehicles - sergeants and ICs in units can use the Look out sir! rule, but special and heavy weapon guys cannot.

Reapers got way better, both in a light AV-threatening role, and in anti MEQ, as hullpoints lets them kill transports on glances, and 5+ cover lets them hit MEQs... but some things still grant 4+ cover, so it remains to be seen just how often units will be in 5+. Focus fire is also a bonus, as it lets you demolish the half of squads not in cover.

Erm, Hawks just got good. Haywire is going to be a major vehicle-bane (glancing 2+!)
Plus if your group allows FW, Hornets kick ass and Wasps are better than regular walkers (and don't fill up your heavy slots)

[fidesratioque]

Gwydion, conventional 5th ed wisdom aside, I've always had excellent experience with WW. They can get cover easier in the new edition as well and don't suffer as much from the squadron rules. I'd recommend them to you if you're looking for a solid fire base.

[Gwyidion]

Sure, hawks got great offensive firepower .... but it is in assault, and they are still >20pt models that are T3 and 4+sv. changes to rapidfire and decreased cover saves means they are really going to be fragile.

A big feather in their cap is this: although a jump infantry unit cannot use their jump packs to move in the movement phase AND to reroll their charge distance, fleet jump infantry CAN use their jump in the movement phase, and use fleet to reroll one or more of their charge dice. Hawks are one of the fastest units in the game, closing into assault. They got better against all vehicles (hitting on 3+ at worse), and against dreads (no more 6+ to grenade a dread).

[Aryllon]

Sure, hawks got great offensive firepower .... but it is in assault, and they are still >20pt models that are T3 and 4+sv. changes to rapidfire and decreased cover saves means they are really going to be fragile.

A big feather in their cap is this: although a jump infantry unit cannot use their jump packs to move in the movement phase AND to reroll their charge distance, fleet jump infantry CAN use their jump in the movement phase, and use fleet to reroll one or more of their charge dice. Hawks are one of the fastest units in the game, closing into assault. They got better against all vehicles (hitting on 3+ at worse), and against dreads (no more 6+ to grenade a dread).

Hang on, I thought with the skyleap power they just got to drop a large blast for Haywire when they re-enter play? Hence wouldn't need to assault?

But yes, they are overpriced considering that's their only real use & are so fragile. Suppose it comes down to Eldar being specialists; awesome at what they're good at, rubbish at everything else!

Edit: my bad, was combining the two rules (swooping hawk grenade pack & haywire grenades). The 'anywhere on the table' blast drop isn't haywire. Shows how often I've used them

[ratfusion]

I ran foot lists in 5th with the following:
eldrad
avatar
guardians
wraithlords
rangers
harlequins
wraithguard

and won more than i lost. Most of these units treaded water or improved. Haven't resolved the psyker powers/ avatar conundrum yet. The divination and telepathy power set could be pretty good for eldar, but fortune and doom are so good...

The biggest problem for a pure foot list is access to scatter lasers. With the nerf to guardians, there's no good place to get a scatter laser outside of the Vyper, WW, and Wraithlord... but all of those have drawbacks - namely, even three wraithlords only gets you 3 scatter lasers, which isn't enough. War walkers are fragile as all hell, and vypers are just as bad (although, OT matters less, as they will get glanced to death by bolters).

I might be able to make warp spiders work for S6 spam. I think the worst mission will be FA, because, even with buffs to Warp Spiders, our FA slot sucks, even more than our troops slot does.

I don't think swooping hawks will be viable. Even with the buffs to haywires, they're expensive and too fragile to be in assault like that.

Rangers and a doomseer are death on special weapons guys not in vehicles - sergeants and ICs in units can use the Look out sir! rule, but special and heavy weapon guys cannot.

Reapers got way better, both in a light AV-threatening role, and in anti MEQ, as hullpoints lets them kill transports on glances, and 5+ cover lets them hit MEQs... but some things still grant 4+ cover, so it remains to be seen just how often units will be in 5+. Focus fire is also a bonus, as it lets you demolish the half of squads not in cover.

I'm in a similar position. My footdar army is next in queue. Eldrad, avatar, and even Karandras are solid. The aspect warriors I own are Scorps, Spiders, Hawks and Reapers, all sitting better this edition. Added to this are 20 rangers, a troop sized unit of wraithguard, and 3 wraithlords. By pure luck I'm seemingly purpose built for this edition. I still don't think this will win many, but it is the least crippled by the changes. The only thing I'm upset about is that my only unit already painted, guardians, are comparatively shittier now.

My condolences to all you mechdar players.

[eldargal]

Swooping Hawks are useful now, but honestly for the point I'd rather take a Nightwing now that they can be ued in regular games (unless yourgroup doesn't like that sort of thing). They would have been btter had they been FAQd to have their intercept rule work on flyers.

[Endobai]

So it is most likely the first time since 2000 when I will not deploy Howling Banshees. Goodbye girls! Feels like loosing a limb...

Wave Serpents and Falcons have to get assault ramps, but it seems we'll have to wait for the new codex.


Hate that Fundamentalists of Alaitoc got a nice boost, same with Wild Hosts of Saim-Hann and Necromancers of Iyanden while Ulthwe will have to linger for a while trying their best.

Biel-tan is left in much darker place - clearly the biggest loosers from the great five.

[murgel2006]

a nice thing about hawks and Spiders is the I10 free attack!
This compensates for the lack of CC weapons in this units. And should be working against non MEQ armies sufficiently.

It is however ridiculous how bad all our "dedicated" CC units are now.


Another point.
Does anyone else have the feeling that games will soon be significantly bigger?
Bigger units, and probably more points?
I mean over here most games were 1250-1500 points but today I heard most of the kids talking about 2000 and more!! (I would really like that)

[Emissary]

I think this was touched on earlier, but Spirit Stones does make a farseer mastery level 2 (and not someone that just can cast 2 spells, but actually is master 2 for the purposes of deny the witch). p66 in the rulebook states "the number of powers that can be used per turn is their mastery level."

[Gwyidion]

It is however ridiculous how bad all our "dedicated" CC units are now.

Not all are terrible.

Rules as written, taking the FAQ into account, Harlequins retain all of their old abilities (except, they lose the +1I for furious charge on the assault, now it is just 1 S), including AP2 rending, but also get stealth AND shrouding from Veil of Tears.

This means that when they are granted a 5+ cover save (by say, being screen by a unit of wraithguard), they receive in fact a 2+ cover save against any ranged attacks which are able to spot them, and, they re-roll their assault distances, ignore difficult terrain, and have frag grenades (from shadowseer).

40 WS5 S4 rending attacks @ I6 on the charge. Protected by a 2+ cover save until they get there. Just don't get them flamer'd.

[Radium]

For the time being I'm going to be the pessimist here, and assume the FAQ was meant to replace VoT with the new rules. GW apparently hates xenos, so I can't really see them buffing harlies that much. But if this survives the 1.1 FAQ (which I reasonably sure we'll see rather quickly), I'm really happy that I started painting my Harlequin army a couple of months ago.

[Aryllon]

Not all are terrible.

Rules as written, taking the FAQ into account, Harlequins retain all of their old abilities (except, they lose the +1I for furious charge on the assault, now it is just 1 S), including AP2 rending, but also get stealth AND shrouding from Veil of Tears.

This means that when they are granted a 5+ cover save (by say, being screen by a unit of wraithguard), they receive in fact a 2+ cover save against any ranged attacks which are able to spot them, and, they re-roll their assault distances, ignore difficult terrain, and have frag grenades (from shadowseer).

40 WS5 S4 rending attacks @ I6 on the charge. Protected by a 2+ cover save until they get there. Just don't get them flamer'd.

Just 40?? Sod that, I'm taking three units

[Gwyidion]

Even if they replace it, they retain the 2+ cover. I took them anyway, i'm just happy about the buff.

[djhowitzer]

there are some mixed views on here. i have been reading the rules all day and for everything nice - fire dragons can use melta bombs at ws value against monstrous creatures - there are two things that are terrible - witchblades are s +2d6 against vehicles. and ap -. so harder to get a pen, and less damage when you get there.

i for one will be buying an archon and a raider pronto, and will be unleashing my eldar from the webway portal. and leaving my now near-useless tanks at home

[duffybear1988]

there are some mixed views on here. i have been reading the rules all day and for everything nice - fire dragons can use melta bombs at ws value against monstrous creatures - there are two things that are terrible - witchblades are s +2d6 against vehicles. and ap -. so harder to get a pen, and less damage when you get there.

i for one will be buying an archon and a raider pronto, and will be unleashing my eldar from the webway portal. and leaving my now near-useless tanks at home

Don't bother - Eldar can't use it and even if they could they couldn't assault after popping out.

[djhowitzer]

why not? trusted allies can use each others stuff with the exception of transports. a portal is not a transport. i am also looking at the DE rules right now and i dont see anything telling me i cant assault the turn i come through the portal

[djc]

p125 of the main book - can't charge on the turn you arrive from reserve.

[djhowitzer]

just read the DE faq. shafted. again. i am seriously not liking what has happened to our army from these changes. i know that is a narrow view to take, but i am afraid i dont have a spare £5000 and a year and a half to buy and paint another army from another codex to be competitive

i am not saying i wont try. but i dont hold out many hopes of success

[djhowitzer]

thanks vic.