4th Edition Eldar in 6th Edition

[RandomThoughts]

I dont know why you are all discussing it. They will surely clear that one up in an FAQ....

You seen the actual FAQs...?

As it stands I don't see Eldar being a particularly viable force to use as an ally. Better to use them as your main force and add other allies to buff where Eldar fall short.

I actually disagree. First of all, for fluff reasons. Eldar are well known to a) get others to fight for them and b) to treasure the lives of their soldiers in ways unknown to the other races.

Personally, taking inspiration from the way British Officers lead native commonwealth armies, I'd consider a single farseer protected by a bunch of Pathfinders escorts overseeing a "main detachment" of Ork mercenaries or "liberated" human soldiers extremly fluffy.

Now, ruleswise, I'd claim that the current codex is pretty weak with a few strong entries. I think if you intend to play competively, you're better off with just the shiny pieces of the Eldar codex as the frosting on your Imp, Marine, Ork or Necron (I know, I know...) cake.

What's the reason everyone keeps saying we'll get a new Codex in 1 year? How do you know that? There are about half a dozen other codices that GW could put out before Eldar theoretically, pushing us back two whole years or more.

Also while we're at it, how do we know we're not getting a new codex in 4 months?

There were a few posts in the rumor section a while ago about the Eldar codex getting started to be worked on, and a 18 to 24 month timeframe from conception to release for most codices.

Questionable how reliable that info is, but it's the best we got right now.

Also, you cannot put phoenix lords in wraithguard squads, their "disciples" rule means they can only join a matching aspect squad.

Yes, we can.

So, I had a thought- Vibrocannon batteries [...] Anyone else been thinking about this?

As a matter of fact, I just ordered my second support platform off ebay this week (old metal models, don't like the redesign). I was thinking about three squads of two each, near guaranteed vehicle kill each turn. Certainly a change from Wraithlords firing their big guns all game with a single kill, if ever...

Double post...

This is something I just don't get. When I double post accidentially, I delete the second post,

OMG this was not intended to be taken seriously! the number of smilies etc.....

Frankly I am not enough of an optimization player to even think through this kind of thing. My game is fluff based, not win based.
I really appreciate the comments however.

Well, mine is 50% fluff and 50% win. Actually. forget that. Fluff is not the right term, as I've grown accustomed to rewrite or outright ignore all fluff I don't like. I guess it's more accurate to say that 50% of my game is style and 50% is win. And when everything works out, it's 100% of winning in style.

For instance, I kept playing foot'dar all through mech-friendly 5th. That has to count for something. But then again, I do have a reputation in my (casual) gaming group for all kinds of nastiness. Again, effective play plus style equals bragging rights.

[Hendarion]

Is there any place in the Eldar Codex that actually defines rules-wise what an "Aspect-Warrior unit" exactly is? If not, we only conclude from fluff, that Phoenix Lords may join Guardians and Wraithguard units? Or may we even conclude they may join Warp-Spiders, since they are not classified to be Aspects anywhere in the rules?
I know this sounds picky, but using some term in the rules that is only defined in the fluff-section is rather silly.

[Mauler]

Is there any place in the Eldar Codex that actually defines rules-wise what an "Aspect-Warrior unit" exactly is? If not, we only conclude from fluff, that Phoenix Lords may join Guardians and Wraithguard units? Or may we even conclude they may join Warp-Spiders, since they are not classified to be Aspects anywhere in the rules?
I know this sounds picky, but using some term in the rules that is only defined in the fluff-section is rather silly.

The Disciples rule on Pg 54 of our codex: "...Phoenix Lords cannot join Aspect Warrior squads that are not of their Aspect." and I believe that is the only limitation specified in the PL rules with regards to joining units. In fact, the part of the rule stating "...If a PL is leading a squad of their Aspect, then the whole squad becomes Fearless..." implies that they can join non-Aspect squads like any other IC, just not Aspect squads of another Aspect.

So as mentioned earlier, Karandras can join a Scorpion squad (now giving them Stealth, Shadowstrike, Stalker & Fearless rules) or Wraithguard (imparting just Shadowstrike & Stalker but not Stealth or Fearless). A PL can lead any Eldar unit but not any other Aspect warrior units.

[mercury14]

The Disciples rule on Pg 54 of our codex: "...Phoenix Lords cannot join Aspect Warrior squads that are not of their Aspect." and I believe that is the only limitation specified in the PL rules with regards to joining units. In fact, the part of the rule stating "...If a PL is leading a squad of their Aspect, then the whole squad becomes Fearless..." implies that they can join non-Aspect squads like any other IC, just not Aspect squads of another Aspect.

So as mentioned earlier, Karandras can join a Scorpion squad (now giving them Stealth, Shadowstrike, Stalker & Fearless rules) or Wraithguard (imparting just Shadowstrike & Stalker but not Stealth or Fearless). A PL can lead any Eldar unit but not any other Aspect warrior units.

Karadras grants any unit he joins Stealth. Because the FAQ says that anyone with the stealth USR grants it to their unit. The wording is confusing because it's designed for 4e. This is a well known ruling though.

[RandomThoughts]

Is there any place in the Eldar Codex that actually defines rules-wise what an "Aspect-Warrior unit" exactly is? If not, we only conclude from fluff, that Phoenix Lords may join Guardians and Wraithguard units? Or may we even conclude they may join Warp-Spiders, since they are not classified to be Aspects anywhere in the rules?
I know this sounds picky, but using some term in the rules that is only defined in the fluff-section is rather silly.

I actually think you're being overly pricky.

Not saying that GW always delivers the crispest, clearest rules possible, but the Aspects are clearly defined through the fluff. I don't really see any ambiguity here.

[Mauler]

Ah, actually to correct my previous post the end of the new VIth Eldar FAQ:

Q: As Phoenix Lords are not Exarchs, but ICs, do their Exarch powers (Shadowstrike, Skyleap, etc) affect units other than Aspect Warriors? (p54)
A: Their powers only affect other units of Aspect Warriors.

So no, Karandras confers no special powers on to Wraithguard at all. His Stealth rule specifically states that it is applied to Striking Scorpions and the lack of any other unit mentioned in the rule excludes them from getting that ability and the FAQ rules that his Exarch abilities only get conferred to Aspect Warriors which again is limited to Scorpions as those are the only Aspect Warrior units he can join.

Beh.

[mercury14]

Ah, actually to correct my previous post the end of the new VIth Eldar FAQ:

Q: As Phoenix Lords are not Exarchs, but ICs, do their Exarch powers (Shadowstrike, Skyleap, etc) affect units other than Aspect Warriors? (p54)
A: Their powers only affect other units of Aspect Warriors.

So no, Karandras confers no special powers on to Wraithguard at all. His Stealth rule specifically states that it is applied to Striking Scorpions and the lack of any other unit mentioned in the rule excludes them from getting that ability and the FAQ rules that his Exarch abilities only get conferred to Aspect Warriors which again is limited to Scorpions as those are the only Aspect Warrior units he can join.

Beh.

Stealth isn't an Exarch power so the faq you're citing doesn't apply.

[IJW]

No, but Karandras's rules in the Eldar codex apply...

[Hendarion]

The Disciples rule on Pg 54 of our codex: "...Phoenix Lords cannot join Aspect Warrior squads that are not of their Aspect." and I believe that is the only limitation specified in the PL rules with regards to joining units. In fact, the part of the rule stating "...If a PL is leading a squad of their Aspect, then the whole squad becomes Fearless..." implies that they can join non-Aspect squads like any other IC, just not Aspect squads of another Aspect.

So as mentioned earlier, Karandras can join a Scorpion squad (now giving them Stealth, Shadowstrike, Stalker & Fearless rules) or Wraithguard (imparting just Shadowstrike & Stalker but not Stealth or Fearless). A PL can lead any Eldar unit but not any other Aspect warrior units.

I think you entirely missed my post. Completely.

[fidesratioque]

Unfortunately the older the Eldar codex gets, the more rules lawyering is going to occur as people scramble to find some way to make it playable. It's obvious that Karandras belongs in a Scorpion squad, fluff-wise, but here we are stuffing him in with Guardians and Wraithguard...

[Hendarion]

Yea, but is it legal or not? Not that I would want to do that, but why would GW write "Aspect Warrior squad" if they actually mean "any squad"?

[mercury14]

Unfortunately the older the Eldar codex gets, the more rules lawyering is going to occur as people scramble to find some way to make it playable. It's obvious that Karandras belongs in a Scorpion squad, fluff-wise, but here we are stuffing him in with Guardians and Wraithguard...

And people have been doing this in tournaments for a while. It's perfectly legal. Search this forum, Dakka, BOLS, etc and you'll see it's been established as legal everywhere.

No, but Karandras's rules in the Eldar codex apply...

Karandras' rules in the Codex say he has the stealth USR -it's NOT in his list of exarch power. The FAQ says any IC with the stealth USR grants it to their entire unit. Where's the confusion?

[fidesratioque]

Yes, it is legal in the sense that it can accord with the letter of the law, but it is definitely not in the spirit.

[mercury14]

Yes, it is legal in the sense that it can accord with the letter of the law, but it is definitely not in the spirit.

It's not in the spirt of the game to use Karandras at all. He shows up like every 700 years and now he's running around my little battles? Or Eldrad who is specifically Ulthwe and who is dead runs around half the lists out there?

[fidesratioque]

The two aren't really comparable, the ICs are specifically in the codex so that they can be taken by the players, in order to recreate either Eldrad or a Phoenix Lord personally leading the troops or a psyker or exarch-warrior who is equivalent to Eldrad or a Phoenix Lord in terms of his powers. What you are doing is expoiting a rules loophole with ambiguous phrasing.

[mercury14]

The two aren't really comparable, the ICs are specifically in the codex so that they can be taken by the players, in order to recreate either Eldrad or a Phoenix Lord personally leading the troops or a psyker or exarch-warrior who is equivalent to Eldrad or a Phoenix Lord in terms of his powers. What you are doing is expoiting a rules loophole with ambiguous phrasing.

It's not ambiguous phrasing. The PLs have some USRs that are separate from their Exarch powers.

Regardless, I'm not happy sticking with the fluff these days since it shafts our already underpowered codex even more. I have an Ulthwe army and there's just no way I'm running a lot of dismal guardians in 6e.

[fidesratioque]

I know how you feel mercury.

I also play Ulthwe and my Guardian list just got the finger in this rules update. I used to run Storm and Defender Guardians in Wave Serpents, I'd crash into the enemy lines and surprise them with a dazzle of psychic powers, guiding them and dooming my target units. I'd strike and then mount up in the Wave Serpents again and make my way to the next target.

Well, that won't work any more. Not only are my Storm Guardians nerfed due to the new assault rules, but my Wave Serpents have become more brittle and are now incredibly vulnerable to assault.

I'm just going to try to make the best of it until some of these issues are hopefully resolved in the codex update.

In the meanwhile I've gone over to using some heavy weapons platforms and putting my Guardians behind an 'energy shield' that I am converting, for which I'll use the Aegis Defense Line rules. Basically, there are some bright spots for Ulthwe players and I intend to exploit those as much as I can. Three D-Cannons behind a heavy fortification and a full Guardian squad will be a tough nut.

[Veloth]

Hey guys! Wondering if soemone can help me out here. My gaming group decided to get back into 40K with the release of 6th, and I decided to pick up Eldar as a new army!

I just have a bit of a query about psychic powers, though, and want a bit of confirmation. The way I'm reading it, a Farseer with Spirit Stones is Mastery Level 2? And what about the abilities listed in the Eldar Codex, do you need to spend a Warp Charge to cast Doom, for example? I could be missing something, but the way I read it is that you don't need to spend one, but you do need to have one available, is that right?

I'm also after a bit of advice. I'm planning on building a Biel-Tan army, I'd rather it were fluffy then hyper-competitive, but does anyone have any advice on how to run it? I'm planning almost entirely Aspect Warriors, with a Farseer and maybe a squad of Rangers, but not sure if I should be using transports or not. Wave Serpents are nice and all, but when three glances will kill them, and with disembarking now seeming like a huge pain in the butt I think I'd rather just rely on the faster Aspect Warriors for my speed.

So yes, oh wise Warseer, advice if you would be so kind!

[Isambard]

Some small things I have noticed in my first readthrough of the rules:

My Seer Council on bikes can now use Fortune and turbo-boost in the same turn (previously turbo-boosting could only be done if the unit did nothing else, including casting Fortune).

My seer council on bikes now benefits from the fleet rule. Kinda cool, they can re-roll their charge ranges! Previously fleet only let you assault after running, and bikes can't run. Now fleet lets you re-roll running and charge rolls, and bikes still can't run, but they can charge.

IF (big IF) you wanted to be a bastard, Singing Spears still are strength 9 against vehicles because Codex>Rulebook and although Witchblades are only found the rulebook, Singing Spears are clearly defined in the codex.

[djhowitzer]

seer council is looking ok - especially if loaded with destructor.

that said, it is a mega-expensive unit that is still hoping the enemy cant muster a great weight of fire.

i am glad i have over 7000 points of eldar. because i am going to have to dig into the dark corners of my army to find something i think will work. for sure guide/doom pathfinders will be seeing an outing. and probably the hawks and reapers. which i guess leaves me with guardian-blobs for the rest of my troops.

i dont mind playing gunline every now and again. but i resent that it now appears to be the only option we have.