How do elite armies deal with losses?

[Siphen]

Kind of a dumb question, but I've only played Goblins (tons of cheap models everywhere) and Vampire Counts (just regrow anything that dies). How do other armies, specifically elite armies like WoC and High Elves, deal with loosing models?

WoC warriors aren't super easy to kill, but losing half (or more) of their models to warmachines and random shooting sounds completely reasonable...and that's before they even reach combat.

I'm considering starting an army like WoC, but what can they do against Shoot-y Ogres or gunline Dwarves? I just don't want to play games where I don't even get to participate...march, remove a bunch of models, march, remove a bunch of models, try to charge, remove a bunch of models, concede

[Oogie boogie boss]

WoC cope with casualties in two ways. The first way is to take a core of Warriors and some other hard stuff, and then fill out the army with the cheap stuff, i.e Marauders, Hounds and the like. Marauders are cheap, and in big units can be scary, so often take some of the firepower focus off of that elite core.

The second way is to beef up the protection through ward saves, often you see Warrior units with 3+ ward saves. This basically means that, though expensive, your Warrior units don't take that many casualties.

So basically you have the option to absorb or to deny.

High Elves are more fragile, and rely on magic and speed to eliminate the opponent's firepower before it can do too much damage.

Whatever army you take, there are always going to be particular styles of army/play that put you at a disadvantage. The key is to minimise the damage this can do and have a solid plan of your own. If you force the opponent to play your game rather than his, then winning is a lot more certain.

[Gradek]

I would argue that WOC don't deal with losses, that is their weakness. Most WOC armies are going to march across the field to get into close combat ASAP and if you make it there with most of your army intact, you are likely to win. If your opponent shoots the stuffing out of you before you get into combat, you are likely to lose. That is just how the army works. Remember though, at T4 and with good armor saves, shooting is somewhat less effective that against other armies (but magic can be more effective).

[Lord Arkhibas]

NOO! Gradek is wrong about how WoC should be played. T4 and good armour saves help, put these guys cost all too much to take up concentrated fire of empire or dwarfs! As have been said, few marauders will help with number of casualties. Warhounds are also a perfect way to screen your precious warriors. Clever use of marauder horsemen or even disc hero can take out those warmachines before they manage to shot any vital part of your army. Buying shields for warriors is great way to improve their armoursave against shooting, if you are too worried about it. Many marks, including mark or nurgle or tzeenth will protect if you are really afraid of shooting.

[boli]

High Elves don't deal with casualties very well at all; but if you control the movement and magic phase you shouldn't have too many casualties. Lore of Life gives HEs the staying power they normally lack whilst keeping the ability to deal out a surprising amount of damage.

If your gaming group allow Teclis controlling the magic phase is as simple as removing your oponants dispell dice.

[Gradek]

NOO! Gradek is wrong about how WoC should be played. T4 and good armour saves help, put these guys cost all too much to take up concentrated fire of empire or dwarfs! As have been said, few marauders will help with number of casualties. Warhounds are also a perfect way to screen your precious warriors. Clever use of marauder horsemen or even disc hero can take out those warmachines before they manage to shot any vital part of your army. Buying shields for warriors is great way to improve their armoursave against shooting, if you are too worried about it. Many marks, including mark or nurgle or tzeenth will protect if you are really afraid of shooting.

I wasn't advocating not taking or using screeners, just that your general strategy with WOC is to get into combat as quickly as possible and take as few losses before as you can.

[Lord Arkhibas]

Oh sorry. i just heard your post in my head like 'Theres nothing you can do with WoC but run towards your enemy and hope he doesn't shoot every bit of your army'. i apologize.

EDIT: But thats exactly what you said. hmmm.... but what you didn't say was that WoC has ways of countering that weakness. And thats why i got upset.

[Oogie boogie boss]

To be fair, there will always be games where a WoC army takes casualties from shooting to the point where it becomes combat ineffective, even when using screening and redirectors, that's just how it is. What I think Gradek is saying is that, even if you are screening your warriors, you still need to get into combat ASAP and that you will still probably take damage on the way in.

[MyNameDidntFit]

We strategise. As a WoC player I always know that there's a chance my main units wont be at effective strength by the time they reach combat (and they almost never are against castling dwarves, etc) but that's why your plans have to synergise with your whole army: so your Warriors aren't enough to take out that unit, flank it with a Chariot, Marauder Horsemen, a Disk, etc. Take out Warmachines right off the bat with sorcs on disks (esp. w/Bloodcurdling Roar) or Hellcannons. Block line of sight with some of WoCs amazing chaff units (doggies and marauder horsemen are my favourites and my Lord always has a vanguard of 2x 5 Marauder Horsemen of Slaanesh dedicated to his protection. On top of all that there are some amazing pieces of kill denial in our army--Blasted Standard on Tzeentch Warriors gives you a 4+ against shooting. Exhalted Hero with Ironcurse Icon in a Tzeentch gives you a 5+... and those are on top of your 1-4+ armour saves.

Anyway, before I ramble more, my point is simply that WoC (and I presume the others, but I don't play them) have many ways of either weathering the storm, kicking back of otherwise getting around their small negligible shooting presence (though Hellcannons are certainly nothing to sneeze at!).

[Snake1311]

Considering that a standard block of warriors is 18 large (6x3), and a common configuration is halberds, shields + frenzy, losing half of those guys isn't that much of a big deal. The 9 remaining will dish out 21 WS5 S5 I5 attacks and most likely win combat anyway - especially if what they are fighting against is a ranged troop.

[King Arthur]

consider 10 mauraders with shields 50pts one rank screen for a expensive chaos warrior unit

[Mati]

Even when you lose half your warriors, the other half can wreak havoc in enemy ranks - happens to me all the time!

[Morax]

MyNameDidntFit has laid out some excellent ways of getting a WoC army to the fore with minimal losses. He could of rattled on with more examples specific to WoC but I'll try to generalize them. They break down to chaff, fast threats, and defensive buffs.

Chaff - Light fast units that can be placed in front of a combat unit to gain a hard cover bonus vs. shooting. These units are cheap, must be as fast as the combat block or faster, and need to either have a high leadership or be near the general/bsb. The best of these do not total to more than 100 points as it will force your opponent to continue looking for VP after they are dead. Chaff has been the answer to gunlines for quite some time and for good reason. No one likes to see a -2 to hit and at worst they get the combat unit 1 turn closer to the target unmolested.

Fast threats - These units must be able to engage the opposing shooting threats quickly to be effective. They often have the vanguard rule and when not they often will fly. The must be able to either kill the shooting threat by themselves or tie them up long enough for the force to close the gap, either way works but killing the threat is often most desireable. They must also be somewhat durable to withstand stand and shoot charge responses or an initial round of shooting that the opponent will get before you can charge them. Fast threats are often found in armies without the option of chaff that still need an answer to heavy shooting lists.

Defensive buffs - These buffs are often taken as a last line of defense in combination with the other two or as a last ditch effort as the army just doesn't have sufficient options of the other two methods. A good defensive buff should reduce the amount of kills your opponent gets from shooting by atleast 1/3 but 1/2 is much more reliable. A good defensive buff must also be cheaper then the points cost of the models you are saving to really be worth taking. What good is it to save 100 points of models if it costs you 200 points to do it? The only time defensive buffs can be relied upon as a primary way of getting an army to the fore is when you can reduce incoming casualties by beyond 1/2.

Every elite army has ways of implementing those three principles to one degree or another. If you would like more army specific examples you have but to ask.