Grand Warseer Sculpting Challenge

[Student]

Welcome to the Grand Warseer Sculpting Challenge,

Duke Donald has come up with an idea, that I think is quite excellent, for a sculpting challenge. We both think that sculpting is one of the most rewarding aspects of the hobby and want to get better at it. The aim of the challenge is to make us sculpt things that we don't normally sculpt whilst providing a place for us to give each other feedback on our work and share techniques and tips. It should also be fun.

Here's how the challenge is going to work:

• Each month the participants will be challenged to sculpt one model.
• Each month will have a theme of a particular unit or a piece of art work.
• Participants can post their progress here and a picture of the finished model.
• At the end of the month someone who participated in that month's challenge will be nominated to pick the theme for the next month.
• Themes will be made known 2 months in advance. This will allow people to take part every other month and therefore take two months to complete each model if they wish.
• Pictures of the following month's challenge should not be posted until the current month's challenge is over. This should help to keep the log more organised.

The themes so far are:

July: Empire Statetrooper
August: Eldar Howling Banshee
September: Old World Tainted Wizard (see post #73 on page 4 by Verm1s for more details)
October: A Stalking Tyranid

[Chimp Lord]

My modeling has so far been limited to conversions from existing models so this should be interesting to see if I am able to sculpt a model from scratch.

[EmperorNorton]

I am interested in trying myself at this.
That being said, I've never sculpted anything. Even filing gaps is a challenge for me sometimes. But what other way is there to learn than to simply try?
Please don't laugh at my poor attempts at sculpting...

[Brovatar]

I'm in let me know when you post the pics please
Cheers,
Brovatar.

[Animerik]

I think I'm in, but are we allowed to use any bits? -how about allowing something like 25% bits or so - that could increase the numbre of participants as sculpting faces and whatnots can be a daunting task....

[MaxSigmund]

I'm definitely interested, but time is a bit tight for me over the next couple of months. Is anyone going to mind if I join in from August/September onwards?

[Verm1s]

In my experience it's often better stretched out to two months. But this looks good.

[Duke Donald]

Thanks Student for setting up the log. It's great to see there's quite a bit of enthusiasm for the challenge. I do not see this as a competition but as a personal challenge where each participant tries to improve upon their skills, by getting motivation, help and feedback from the log. Thus, no one will be laughed at and any bits are allowed, but should be used as sparingly as one's skills, motivation and time allow one to.

I'm going for a halberdier and have tried to come up with a dynamic pose. I've started working on it and will post frequent updates of the various stages. I'm not a great sculptor but I've discovered a few tricks that may be helpful to others. Conversely, I'd be keen on feedback and criticisms on the things I could improve upon.

Here's the armature. It's made out of a paperclip and some wire. the shaft of the halberd is not glued to the "hands" and can be removed.


I then added some greenstuff to shape the general shape of the legs and body. At this stage I realised that the right arm was too long and the pose wasn't right. I shortened it and whilst bending the arms to try different poses, I managed to break it at the elbow. I had to fix it with wire and glue, which was fiddly. This explains the bionic right arm on the pictures below. It is a bit thicker than I would have hoped, but I should get away with it as it will be covered by a puffy sleeve.

[Verm1s]

The aim of the challenge is to make us sculpt things that we don't normally sculpt whilst providing a place for us to give each other feedback on our work and share techniques and tips.

I do not see this as a competition but as a personal challenge where each participant tries to improve upon their skills, by getting motivation, help and feedback from the log.

For those who are most serious and fired up to improve skills and knowledge, I've got a couple of recent links right off the bat.

http://gurneyjourney.blogspot.co.uk/...-students.html
http://minisculpture.co.uk/index.php?topic=1068.0

Okay, oil and landscape painting might not be very applicable to sculpting minis, but don't skim past the drawing books too. Drawing or sculpting - it's still all about visualising 3D forms.

There are a few other topics on Mini Sculpture that just might be beneficial, too.

At this stage I realised that the right arm was too long and the pose wasn't right. I shortened it and whilst bending the arms to try different poses, I managed to break it at the elbow. I had to fix it with wire and glue, which was fiddly. This explains the bionic right arm on the pictures below. It is a bit thicker than I would have hoped, but I should get away with it as it will be covered by a puffy sleeve.

The general advice is - and I've had this directed at me a couple of times! - try to get the pose and proportions of the armature right at the beginning. If the armature turns out wrong in these ways - or if it breaks! - once you've started layering the putty on, it's usually less hassle to bin it and start over, rather than muddling through with ad hoc adjustments.

Still, it's not looking too shabby at the mo. Looking forward to your progress, and that of everyone else.

[EmperorNorton]

Does anybody know if the sculpting videos by Miniature Mentor are worth the asking price?

[Little Joe]

An interesting thread, I might jump in from time to time. I do not mind commenting more regular so bring it on!

[Student]

Thanks for the links Verm1s, they may well come in useful.

So I've decided to go for a spearman in a fairly static pose, I have a tendancy to want to make all of the models I sculpt jumping (check out my tartan orcs for a prime example). I started with a very simple armature made of the copper core from some electrical wire.



I put some super glue on the wire and let it dry as this roughs up the surface and makes the green stuff stick better so you don't have to spend ages chasing putty around. I then built up some basic shapes on the armature.



Once it has dried I'll drill holes to add more wire to make the arms.

[Duke Donald]

@ Verm1s
I agree that very generally the most sensible course of action is to start anew when things go really wrong with a sculpture. I was seriously tempted to do so when the arm broke. However, I was also interested in testing whether it could be fixed. Besides, as this mini is part of the challenge rather than for one of my armies, I'll try to go ahead with it whatever happens.

@Student
Cool to see you've started yours. I felt a bit like I was cheating by having already started the July challenge now. I'm looking forward to seeing how it shapes up. I also generally sculpt the legs and body first and then drill a hole for the wire supporting the arms and one to pin the head. I have to say that given the problems I've encountered by building the whole armature at the beginning may convince me to revert to your approach for the next mini.

I've now added some greenstuff on the arms and sculpted a head. It is actually the first time I sculpt a human face. It was looking quite good at some stage but the addition of the moustache and some mistakes at a late stage ruined it a bit. I have mixed feelings about it. It's not brilliant but should be OK once painted. Anyway, at least it looks suitably silly for an Empire State trooper.

[EmperorNorton]

Okay, I took a first step and ordered 36 inches of green stuff. That's a lot, but I figure I'll be throwing out more than a few failed attempts.
I have also started watching some tutorials on youtube, but I have a hard time not to feel discouraged by those.
So far I have learned that I should do some sketches to at least have an idea what the thing I'm sculpting is supposed to look like. That's a problem, because I can't draw at all. So I guess I'll have to take a step back and figure out how to do that first.
Or maybe I should stop worrying and simply jump in.

[Duke Donald]

@EmperorNorton
36 inches of greenstuff! That's a hell of a lot.

I wasn't happy with the previous head and decided to sculpt another one. After some trial and error and realising that the most difficult part was not necessarily to sculpt a reasonable head but to stop when it looks fine rather than ruining it). Anyway, I've managed to produce one I'm fairly happy with. I'm not sure whether to add some headgear.

[Student]

@EmperorNorton: I'd jump in. If you check out my random fantasy sculpts log you can see that I'm terrible at drawing. I get some rough ideas down but nothing more.

@Duke Donald: That second head is a vast improvement. It looks particularly good in that 3rd photo. I don't know about giving him headgear, it seems a shame to cover up good work. Also you can get 36" of green stuff pretty cheaply here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Green-Stuf...72253814277705

[Duke Donald]

@EmperorNorton

I concur with Student's advice to simply jump in. I'm decent at drawing myself but feel that sculpting and drawing are completely different skills and the only way to improve on your sculpting is to practice. The first attempts will be horribly frustrating. The worst disappointments for me were the first times when I managed to sculpt a half decent detail but then invariably managed to squash it with my fingers.

Below I will give you a few pieces of advice gathered from my own experience gathered over the last year.

- I generally don't do sketches but look at loads of photos to get a clear mental image of what I'd like to achieve. It is also very useful to spend time looking at commercial minis.
- Don't buy lots of specialised tools at least in the beginning. The only things you need are some greenstuff, fingers, a sculpting spatula (I use the standard GW one), a hobby knife and needles and/or pins. I also use a couple of tweezers and have built a few needle like tools from old paintbrushes (see photo below).

- Make sure your armature is held on a support which can be handled easily; you want to touch the mini you're sculpting as little as possible.
- Proceed very slowly, sculpt one bit (e.g. a shoe; a leg; a belt and a buckle) and wait until this is dry before proceeding with the next bit (this is the most useful piece of advice I can give you and I'm nearly always regretting it when I get carried away and forget to follow this rule). You can still make good progress by working on more than one mini at any time and/or by putting your mini under a lamp or even in the oven (50°C - 80°), which greatly reduces the time it takes for greenstuff to harden.
- Greenstuff tends to become easier to work and to be less sticky after a while. Sometimes, if you're stuck, simply wait for half an hour and the consistence will be right. I feel it depends a lot on what you're sculpting. I find freshly mixed greenstuff fine for organic details, but always wait for a while if I want to do inorganic stuff (e.g. belts, buckle, armour).
- You can use water, oil, vaseline or saliva (which is a horrible habit) or whatever liquid you can think of to get smoother surfaces and avoid greenstuff to stick to your tools. Use any liquid sparingly as it makes it difficult to see what you're sculpting.
- Sometimes you will need to use superglue. For instance, this can be required when you want to add a detail such as ears or a button. This is tricky as the mixture of greenstuff and superglue creates a horrible material, It will harden immediately and will give a very unpleasant whitish and rough finish. Thus, use superglue in minute quantities; I dip the point of a needle and deposit a tiny drop where needed. Also make absolutely sure you don't get superglue in contact with water or oil on the mini.
- Some things simply cannot be fixed, and it is generally far more rewarding and time-effective to start anew if things got wrong.
- Generally don't go back to a mini you finished earlier to improve it. This has never worked for me and it is more fun moving to the next.

I guess this is more or less the list of the most crucial things I've learned whilst sculpting minis, and that would have been useful for me to know when I started. That said, I guess the only way to really learn such things is through a process of trial and error. Finally, let me encourage again to jump in, you will encounter many episodes of supreme frustration, in particular in the beginning. However, it is also a very enjoyable and therapeutic activity (much more than painting minis for me). Finally, there is the reward of contemplating a mini you've conceived and sculpted yourself and you're the only one one in the world to own, which I personally find very satisfying.

@Student
Thanks for the feedback; I agree the second head is an improvement, but I did another one since then (plus a few that ended up in the bin), which I like even better. I'm starting to get a better understanding on how to sculpt faces and may do a few in the near future to get some practice. If I improve further I could do a tutorial on how I do it if some of you were interested.

Thanks for the link, I hadn't realised you could get greenstuff that cheap from ebay (which is quite ironic given the time I spent on ebay chasing DoW minis). I buy the Galeforce One greenstuff which is way cheaper than GWs and which I find for some arguably irrational reason better than the one from GW (irrational given that this is likely the same knetadite repackaged in various ways) . Anyway, when I'm running out of mine, I'll try out the ebay bulk stuff.

Finally, here is yet another head and some minor work on the body. I went for some kind of pattern on the cuirasse, which I had seen of a real Landsknecht armour. However, I realise how horrible it looks on the picture and I may revert to a smooth finish.

[Verm1s]

I'm decent at drawing myself but feel that sculpting and drawing are completely different skills and the only way to improve on your sculpting is to practice.

You might tell from my last post that I've had a different experience. I've been drawing since before I can remember, and I think it gave me a fair boost when I started pushing putty around. Fair enough, the techniques are definitely different and sculpting can take a lot more time and tweaking; but like I said, I think the benefit's in being able to visualise the shapes you want.

But if you don't draw, then, er, that's pretty useless. But still, it brings me onto:

I guess this is more or less the list of the most crucial things I've learned whilst sculpting minis, and that would have been useful for me to know when I started. That said, I guess the only way to really learn such things is through a process of trial and error.

Manipulation and properties of the putty are some things that a beginner sculptor's going to have to get used to on their own, although they can read up tips and advice, like those you posted yourself. But in terms of what forms the putty's manipulated into... trial and error might not be a speedy process in learning and reproducing e.g. the human figure, if the sculptor doesn't know how the human figure's supposed to be put together in the first place. This is important - so much so that I feel confident in saying that, rather than 'I think this is important' or 'IMO it's important'.

That's not to say that any interested hobbyist who picks up a sculpting tool first has to go on an intensive anatomical study to become a whizz-bang artist, splashing out on expensive books and courses etc. It can be as simple as a printed skeleton to check armature proportions, or a couple of reference photos dredged off google images to keep you right - to begin with! It all helps, and if you start with a little reference and research, it can sometimes be difficult to stop.

Although, not to bang on about the Dover Bookshop thing, but there's a whole bunch of Bridgman's books on there. Professionally acclaimed works for around a tenner or less, no UK postage? Bleedin' bargain! Just set aside a fraction of the monthly GW budget.

I buy the Galeforce One greenstuff which is way cheaper than GWs and which I find for some arguably irrational reason better than the one from GW (irrational given that this is likely the same knetadite repackaged in various ways) .

It is. And ironically it's still overpriced, as you've seen. (But in a bit of double irony, I like to spend a bit more on putty with little indy sculptors, rather than guys who're already raking in GW sales. But YMMV.)

I was a bit stumped for inspiration, so I had a look through Uniforms and Heraldry of The Empire, and settled on who I assume is Sergeant-at-arms Hans Schwartzblut of the Sterntower Marksmen.



So to go into detail: I clipped out a length of wire and bent it into a 32mm armature. Though I've got a bit of an unfair advantage in the shape of an Iron Mammoth scale template. Not an absolute necessity but a pretty convenient bit of kit.
When the wire was measured and posed (not the most fun part, I have to say) I mixed 50:50 green stuff and apoxie sculpt. The apoxie sculpt makes the mix softer and easier to spread around, and harder and sturdier when cured. I used the first wad of that to stick the armature to a plasticard-topped cork.
It's definitely not the usual way to attach an armature to the 'handle', but I like it. Armatures simply stuck in a cork always start to jiggle loose on me, and the surface is more level. It does mean I have to stick the armature on rather than in, though, allowing for the little bit of extra height and making the anchored ends parallel to the plasticard.
Anyway. I cooked the putty to harden it quickly, made sure the armature was stuck firmly, and used more of the putty mix to coat the wire and block in some rough, major anatomical masses - leg muscles, ribcage, head, etc. And that's where I've got to so far.

[Duke Donald]

@ Verm1s
I'm really please you're joining in. I like the picture you chose and the pose of your mini captures the relaxed attitude really well. Thanks also for sharing some of your tips and tricks. I'm very interested in trying out the apoxy putty as it sounds great from your description. One thing I was wondering is whether it also allows getting sharper edges, as this is something I fail to achieve with greenstuff.

Concerning drawing and sculpting, I feel my point was probably too strongly put. I appreciate that the two activities are related and that proficiency in one of them can only be helpful in the other. However I believe that one can learn to sculpt without any prior background in drawing and vice versa.

I had a day off work today and made some progress on the mini. This morning I realised how horrible the previous cuirass was. Thus I removed it and decided to go back to the drawing board (metaphorically speaking as I don't draw the things the I sculpt). I'm much happier with the new one. A parallel would be running and cycling. A seasoned runner will definitely be better at cycling

[sigur]

Sounds very cool but I'm not sure if I can manage a model within a month. Make it two maybe?