Grand Warseer Sculpting Challenge

[Duke Donald]

@Sigur
No problem, we can step up the pace to two models a month.
More seriously I'd be more than happy for the challenge to become a bi-monthly event if this would convince more participants to join in. An alternative might be to keep the schedule as is but announce future themes well in advance so that people would be able to spend more time on the minis for the challenges they'd like to take part in.

[sigur]

Yes, I also just noticed that my wording earlier wasn't that perfect to get my question across, wasn't it.

I mean I'm far from being a great sculptor but I think that a mini every two months is more managable for people. I do like your second idea very much as well though. Not sure if everybody will take part in every challenge so I think that announcing the theme early on should work just as well whilst still keeping up a certain frwquency of results.

[Verm1s]

Thanks also for sharing some of your tips and tricks... Concerning drawing and sculpting, I feel my point was probably too strongly put.

Welcome, and ditto for me! Tell me if I'm carping on too much.

I'm very interested in trying out the apoxy putty as it sounds great from your description. One thing I was wondering is whether it also allows getting sharper edges, as this is something I fail to achieve with greenstuff.

The good news is that every other putty is better for sharp edges. Procreate, brown stuff, milliput, apoxie sculpt, etc. etc. Though they all have their own distinct properties too.
Without sidetracking too much: apoxie sculpt is a great, claylike, user-friendly medium. It's even a wee bit water-soluble, which helps with lubing, smoothing and cleanup. Like I say, soft, smooth and easily forms edges when 'wet'; and pretty hard and easily sanded or carved when cured. It's one problem in my opinion, is that it can be a bit too soft and fragile - crumbly, even - in the relatively tiny amounts and details applied to wargaming minis, and a bit too much water doesn't help that. What does help is greenstuff: while apoxie sculpt 'loosens up' greenstuff, GS helps bind the apoxie sculpt. That, or letting it sit a while to firm up. It's got a pretty good working window which allows that.
I'm not sure where in the world you are, but from what I've seen it's not widely available outside North America. I've only seen a handful of UK sources, for example. (I'm still using the 4lb pack I got direct, years ago. At the time, shipping and customs still meant that amount was cheaper per weight than anything except milliput) Though magic sculp (more widely sold) and cold clay (UK) are very similar products. Here's a list of some shops dotted about the globe, for those three and others.

Really fast progress on your sculpt! I can see what you mean about sharp edges (preaching to the choir) but it still looks good.

I cracked open a couple of anatomy books to tweak what I had and to add more mass in the right places. Especially at the shoulders. Not too much definition as most of it'll be covered again. Cooked.



I snipped off a couple of 30mm pieces of wire for the arms. Plenty of excess, 'cos it can shrink a bit if you twist it, or when you start bending at shoulder and elbows. I bent one end double on each. Along with the large holes drilled into the shoulders, this'll let the wire 'fishhook' into a good, big plug of putty, and reduce the chances of it twisting or pulling loose. That done, I used the excess putty to add a touch more bulk & detail in places. Looking at it, I think the (it's) right leg could still use some more, but that's easily done.

[Crube]

Sculpting has always been a bit of a dark art to me... it's taken long enough to get my painting to a decent standard

I'll be watching this with interest... maybe have a go in the future, once I have my new painting area set up, and get back into the swing of painting...

Greeat idea!

[Duke Donald]

@Sigur
I also like the second option of a monthly challenge but with the topics announce well in advance. It may be possible to alternate between fantasy and 40k (or other sci-fi) themes as this would be likely to attract further participants. Moreover, while I don't play 40k myself, I would enjoy the sculpting challenge.

@Verms1

Welcome, and ditto for me! Tell me if I'm carping on too much.

Great, and don't worry, I felt it was an interesting and civilised discussion on the the importance of drawing and sculpting, which arguably shouldn't be the most controversial topic.

The good news is that every other putty is better for sharp edges. Procreate, brown stuff, milliput, apoxie sculpt, etc. etc. Though they all have their own distinct properties too.

I must say I suspected this must be the case. I only ever used greenstuff but encountered this problem many times before. However, it was particularly obvious on the cuisses (the armour on the legs). I took extra care to produce sharp edges (and they were sharp when the greeenstuff was fresh). However, after it had cured, it was all smooth and fuzzy. I suspect the problem may be exacerbated by my habit to bake my sculpts at around 100°C for them to dry fast.

Without sidetracking too much: apoxie sculpt is a great, claylike, user-friendly medium. It's even a wee bit water-soluble, which helps with lubing, smoothing and cleanup. Like I say, soft, smooth and easily forms edges when 'wet'; and pretty hard and easily sanded or carved when cured. It's one problem in my opinion, is that it can be a bit too soft and fragile - crumbly, even - in the relatively tiny amounts and details applied to wargaming minis, and a bit too much water doesn't help that. What does help is greenstuff: while apoxie sculpt 'loosens up' greenstuff, GS helps bind the apoxie sculpt. That, or letting it sit a while to firm up. It's got a pretty good working window which allows that.

Sounds good to me! I'm looking forward to trying it out.

I'm not sure where in the world you are, but from what I've seen it's not widely available outside North America. I've only seen a handful of UK sources, for example. (I'm still using the 4lb pack I got direct, years ago. At the time, shipping and customs still meant that amount was cheaper per weight than anything except milliput) Though magic sculp (more widely sold) and cold clay (UK) are very similar products. Here's a list of some shops dotted about the globe, for those three and others.

Thanks for the links. I live in Switzerland and spend a lot of time in London. But the web is our friend and I'm reasonably confident I should be able to get any of these products. Another material I'm interested in trying out at some point is brown stuff.

Really fast progress on your sculpt! I can see what you mean about sharp edges (preaching to the choir) but it still looks good.

Thanks, I tend to be fast but it often shows.

I cracked open a couple of anatomy books to tweak what I had and to add more mass in the right places. Especially at the shoulders. Not too much definition as most of it'll be covered again. Cooked.

I like it a lot. It really shows you're interested in an academic artistic approach in sculpting(in a good way). Your mini feels like one of these classical sculptures exposed at the Louvres, except for the size and colour, that is.

I also made some progress on my project. I fixed a few things and added further details. I also started making a halberd out of plasticard. Finally, I sculpted yet another head, which I decided to keep for this mini. In case you were wondering, this is not some fancy bandana but a bandage, which I hope should become clearer once painted.

[Student]

I think it would be a good idea to choose themes two months in advance so that people who sculpt slower or have less time can enter every other month giving them two months to finish while anyone who wants to go fast can enter every month. Though I think there should be a rule that only pictures for that months theme can be posted during that month to maintain some continuity.

Who wants to pick the theme for August? I'd nominate Duke Donald as the challenge was his idea.

Now to my progress. There's not much, I have in fact only added a pair of trousers, but here it is anyway:

[Goblinho]

Was pointed in this direction from a different sculpting site, exactly the type of thing I am looking for. I have already started working on it, I'll try and get pics up tomorrow.

[Duke Donald]

@Crube
Sculpting can seem daunting but to me it is the most satisfying aspect of the hobby. I hope you'll be convinced to take part in a challenge in the future. As I mentioned before, using bits for the most challenging parts of a mini would not be a problem.

@Student

I think it would be a good idea to choose themes two months in advance so that people who sculpt slower or have less time can enter every other month giving them two months to finish while anyone who wants to go fast can enter every month. Though I think there should be a rule that only pictures for that months theme can be posted during that month to maintain some continuity.

OK, Let's keep it monthly but announce future challenges a couple of months in advance. I agree we should only post pictures for the ongoing challenge to keep the log vaguely focused.

Who wants to pick the theme for August? I'd nominate Duke Donald as the challenge was his idea.

I accept your nomination for choosing the next topic; it's not overly democratic but we've got only 24 hours left and there should be many opportunities to decide on future challenges. I suggest we go for a 40k theme so that we start alternating between fantasy and sci-fi and thus hopefully attract further participants. I suggest we go for a Eldar Howling Banshee. It feels iconic, there's some cool artwork around and the official GW minis are not that great. Could you please edit your first post to announce the next challenge?

Now to my progress. There's not much, I have in fact only added a pair of trousers, but here it is anyway:

Nice trousers and I like what you've done so far. It feels understated but the sculpting is clean and sharp. I was wondering how you managed to produce these minuscule buttons.

@Goblinho
Great, I'm thrilled we're getting another participant. I'm looking forward to seeing your contribution.

[Goblinho]

Thanks DD, my idea behind the sculpt is based on a scene from the film 300. Going to have a trooper on his knee hiding under his shield as he is peppered with arrows.

I've only done the frame but I'm pretty happy with the pose seeing as I've never tried a figure like this before. I has some mixed GS left over so I started the shield too.

[Verm1s]

Good start, Goblinho. Although as Duke Donald mentioned earlier, you might find it a bit difficult to hold the sculpt while working on it.

How did you make the shield? Sculpted on a flat surface?

@Sigur
I also like the second option of a monthly challenge but with the topics announce well in advance. It may be possible to alternate between fantasy and 40k (or other sci-fi) themes as this would be likely to attract further participants.

I think it would be a good idea to choose themes two months in advance so that people who sculpt slower or have less time can enter every other month giving them two months to finish while anyone who wants to go fast can enter every month. Though I think there should be a rule that only pictures for that months theme can be posted during that month to maintain some continuity.

Sounds good. Something I've been wondering about, Duke Donald: when you say 'or other sci-fi' you obviously mean non-GW settings. Is that what you mean for fantasy, too? How often would these pop up in the schedule?

I took extra care to produce sharp edges (and they were sharp when the greeenstuff was fresh). However, after it had cured, it was all smooth and fuzzy. I suspect the problem may be exacerbated by my habit to bake my sculpts at around 100°C for them to dry fast.

Ah, yes. That'd be greenstuff's infamous memory - the quality that makes it want to spring back and smooth out. It's useful in some circumstances but can be an annoyance in others.
And yeah: I think 100°C temperatures might affect that too! I can't remember any instances off the top of my head, but I recall hearing something like that before. At any rate I know that lowering a desklamp too close can cause the putty to burn and blister.

Another point about sharp edges: the standard green stuff mix used to be 1:1 blue:yellow, but some time ago the manufacturer started recommending 1.5 parts yellow to 1 part blue. Mini sculptors have suggested more yellow for longer than that - for softer, stickier putty, longer working times, and sharper details - but not as the standard starting point.
I think it's a good idea, myself. It would eliminate a lot of the stiffness and memory that might hamper beginner sculptors. If they know about it. So if any newbies take away one lesson from this post, that's it.

I like it a lot. It really shows you're interested in an academic artistic approach in sculpting(in a good way). Your mini feels like one of these classical sculptures exposed at the Louvres, except for the size and colour, that is.

Thanks! I've never really thought of it as 'academic', but I suppose it is in a way. I don't know what a real academic would have to say about that, though!

I also made some progress on my project.

Good plasticard work.

The criticism I'd make this time hasn't much to do with the sculpting, but the photography. On my monitor at least, it's a little dark and difficult to make out details. How do you light it? Do you have any software that can boost the brightness?

Now to my progress. There's not much, I have in fact only added a pair of trousers, but here it is anyway:

Nice job on the details, especially those slashes. Good 'n' sharp.

Was pointed in this direction from a different sculpting site

I noticed the 'newest member' announcement down at the bottom! Good to see this piques your interest, but I hope the 'different site' can offer you something too.

I suggest we go for a Eldar Howling Banshee. It feels iconic, there's some cool artwork around

Not when you google it. Can you point out any specific examples of art? Any official GW galleries or something?

[sigur]

Not sure but is it that good an idea to use specific GW IP as the themes of the challenges?

[Student]

Nice start Goblinho. It's cool to see such a different pose to all the others.

Sounds good. Something I've been wondering about, Duke Donald: when you say 'or other sci-fi' you obviously mean non-GW settings. Is that what you mean for fantasy, too? How often would these pop up in the schedule?

Personally I would rather stick to sculpting things from GW settings, however if everyone else wants to include other settings I'm cool with that. I suppose they would pop up in the schedule as often as people picked them.

What is the general concensus on including non-GW settings?

Not sure but is it that good an idea to use specific GW IP as the themes of the challenges?

There shouldn't be a problem with it so long as none of us cast up anything that we've made based on GW IP and try to sell it.

I've updated the first post to include the changes allowing people to enter every month or every other month as they wish. I've also added the August theme of an Eldar Howling Banshee.

[Goblinho]

What is the general concensus on including non-GW settings?

Not sure if anyone reads them but I'm gonna try and do some discworld stuff.

@Verm1s Yeah its just bluetacked to the base I'm holding it with my drill on the wire from the right leg

I have a bit more progress but I'll try and get pics up tomorrow

[sigur]

Wouldn't it also be interesting to have a more general theme once in a while to get the creative juices flowing? Something like "fairy tales", "holidays" (when it's the time of course ), "post apocalyptic" or something like that?

[Verm1s]

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing an occassional diversion too, but I think it does depend on how interested people would be, too. Could be another advantage in announcing themes in advance.

Not sure if anyone reads them but I'm gonna try and do some discworld stuff.

Lol!

Hello. Perhaps we haven't been properly introduced yet.

We're nerds.

[Khorneguy]

can we use bitz for weapons? i'm thinking of sculpting a handgunner marksman for a unit of mine that needs one and guns are tough to sculpt

[Duke Donald]

@Goblinho
This is an interesting pose. Just a couple of suggestion; as Verms1 mentioned, it really helps to fix your mini on a support (rather just on bluetack). Also make sure not to sculpt the first layers too thick, in particular at places like ankles, wrists, neck and head. It is really challenging to be forced to sculpt very thin layers for teh subsequent details.Unless it is too late, I suggest you file extensively the layer you've added to the armature. Besides reducing the volume, this will also help the next layer of greenstuff to stick better, which will make it easier to sculpt the details on top. The shield looks good.

@Verms1

Another point about sharp edges: the standard green stuff mix used to be 1:1 blue:yellow, but some time ago the manufacturer started recommending 1.5 parts yellow to 1 part blue. Mini sculptors have suggested more yellow for longer than that - for softer, stickier putty, longer working times, and sharper details - but not as the standard starting point.
I think it's a good idea, myself. It would eliminate a lot of the stiffness and memory that might hamper beginner sculptors. If they know about it. So if any newbies take away one lesson from this post, that's it.

I've tried using an excess of yellow before and tried it again today following your advice, not with much success I must admit. I was struggling to keep it sticking in place and not tearing it. I'll try again for the next project but I suspect I will have to change the way I sculpt and it may take me a while to get used to it.

The criticism I'd make this time hasn't much to do with the sculpting, but the photography. On my monitor at least, it's a little dark and difficult to make out details. How do you light it? Do you have any software that can boost the brightness?

Sorry, I realise my pictures are often terrible. I also tend to forget that I use a very bright back-lit screen and what looks decent on my computer can be very difficult to see on other screens. I over-exposed the picture below, is it any better?

Not when you google it. Can you point out any specific examples of art? Any official GW galleries or something?

Well, "cool artwork" may not have been the perfect word. What I should have said is that there are many stereotypical, often tacky drawings and paintings for "Howling Banshees", but I personally like the 40k aesthetics. It is a bit like sometimes enjoying eating a hamburger, even I wouldn't consider it as a gastronomic treat. Anyway, a google search along the lines of "Howling Banshee artwork" will lead to many hits. It also seems to be a fairly popular theme on the Deviantart site.

@Sigur; Student

Not sure but is it that good an idea to use specific GW IP as the themes of the challenges?

I appreciate that GW protects their IP aggressively and that they can be legalistica at times, but I agree with Student that we should be absolutely fine as long as no one intends to make any money out of this log.

@Verms1, Student, Sigur and Goblinho
I'd be open about themes outside GW settings for a change and I like the idea of sometimes having a very general theme along the lines of those suggested by Sigur.

Finally, I've made some further progress on the project. There are still a few things to fix and he needs a pair of boots and a base. That won't happen before Friday as I'll be traveling over the next three days.

[Duke Donald]

@Khorneguy
Bitz for weapons are absolutely OK as far as I'm concerned. This should also be true for any of the particularly challenging parts (e.g. faces, hands).

[Goblinho]

@DD thanks for the tips mate, I am not sculpting with it attached to the base, I hold it in my drill. I'll try and take a pic next time to show what I mean. I'll try thinning out the wrist before I start working on it too. Really liking what you've done so far, I'm dreading doing the hands on mine but you've done a really good job on yours.

@ Verm1s love the discworld stuff, read all the books. Would love to see Tim Burton to a discworld movie and make it really dark and broody with the black humour that runs through the books. The Idea I had was for Detritus with his siege crossbow

Anyway here is my update, my first attempt at a face and although its rough I'm pretty happy with the result. Apart from that all I've done is some work on the grounded knee and leg. In terms of the length of the boot I used too much GS so when it comes to sculpting the foot I will be trimming it back. Never really worked on it at all yesterday but I'll try and do a bit today.

[f2k]

Hmmmm...

This tale does look kinda interesting. However, seeing as I’m currently running the Tale of Historical Wargammers I’m not sure I’m going to have the time to participate.

In any case, aiming to get a sculpt done within a month is way too ambitious for me. I usually take much longer than that. But then again, sculpting is never my primary spare time concern...

I do wonder though: why not do something non-GW related? I mean no offence, but you’re spending your time sculpting something which has already been sculpted many times before. Why not try something new and far more generic?

In any case, I'll keep my eyes on this thread...