Tactica: Deathwing 6th Edition

[Droma]

FAQ says that we should look at rulebook reference chart to see updated units types and hullpoints and also that cyclone missile is now 2 missile launchers. So if we look at rulebook there are missile launchers and they have flakk. So we have anti fliers weapons.

Read the book again. Missile launchers do not come with flakk missiles automatically. Text trumps table in this instance.

pg57 "All missile launchers come with frag and krak missiles as standard, and some have the option to upgrade to include flakk missiles."

The only AA we can get in a list is through fortifications and allies.

[KaldCB]

I love the deathwing threads

Going to try out the new rules tomorrow. I cant wait.

[GenRuckus]

Standard missle launchers have all three profiles, frag, krak, flakk fire. the entry for terminators cyclone missle launcher in the new FAQ is heavy 2 missle launchers. so they can shoot the flakk rounds at flyers and still have the frag/krak options

[Lion El Jason]

Heh, the point of waiting with this thread was so the first few pages weren't taken up by guessing rules and speculation but nevermind!

pg57 "All missile launchers come with frag and krak missiles as standard, and some have the option to upgrade to include flakk missiles."
If the option isn't given you do not have flakk. Hopefully we will get an early new codex and they will be included,

[starlight]

We should have one of the first two books out in Sept (being 'Marines' and all).

[GenRuckus]

Heh, the point of waiting with this thread was so the first few pages weren't taken up by guessing rules and speculation but nevermind!

pg57 "All missile launchers come with frag and krak missiles as standard, and some have the option to upgrade to include flakk missiles."
If the option isn't given you do not have flakk. Hopefully we will get an early new codex and they will be included,

Page 415 of the rulebook, top right "missle launcher" has all three profiles, frag s:4 ap:6, krak s:8 ap:3 and flakk missle s:7 ap:4 with skyfire.
Page 2 of the dark angels FAQ top right, -Cyclone missle launcher, change "counts as missle launcher" to "counts as a heavy 2 missle launcher"

so tell me, what is guess work or speculation??

[Droma]

GenRuckus, you're wrong. We're quoting directly from the section of the book giving details about the missile launcher. The text in the book ALWAYS trumps any table. Therefore if you don't have the option to upgrade your launchers to have flakk missiles then you can't use them in your launchers it is that simple.

But go ahead and try that with someone after showing them both sections of the book. I'm sure it'd be funny for everyone else in the store after your opponent uses his BRB to smack some sense into you.

[FraustyTheSnowman]

I don't think getting quite so pissy about it is going to convince anyone of anything, but yeah, the missile launcher doesn't have the skyfire rule until you pay for the upgrade, which you don't have the option. People either get it at this point or they don't. Do we need to keep discussing this, on every bloody tactica on warseer...or can we zip our flies up and maybe move on with our lives? Seems like there should be plenty else to talk about...new book and all...

[Dual Nature]

The librarian with Prescience power has replaced the chaplain. Chaplains offer nothing that the librarian doesn't now and the re-rolls from prescience also work on ranged attacks which is obviously huge with a full terminator squad and 2 HQs.

The Divination Libby was a combat beast, yesterday. With Prescience still up from my turn (blessings last until the start of your next turn), he took a charge from 2 Thunder Wolf Cavalry. With re-rolls to hit on WS5/I5/A3 he managed 2 wounds with his Force Sword. Activating the Force effect grants ALL wounds Instant Death now, with no Deny the Witch, so he killed them both before they swung.

While I'm obviously a big fan of Divination so far, what other schools are people considering for DA Libbies? And for allied psykers? I had Telekinesis used against me and the Strikedown effect on its Primaris Power was fairly effective, keeping me at arm's length due to poor movement rolls. The base SW powers on his other Rune Priest seemed at least as effective, though.

A Termie Librarian with Gate, Null Zone, and a SS from C:SM looks like it would be worth experimenting with. My first reading implies he could Deathwing Assault, since it only requires attaching the Terminator IC. I play Relictors, a half-DA/half-Ultra successor chapter, so the pairing is especially interesting to me. But I understand if allying isn't an option everyone wants. To fill out the ally contingent I'm intending to add sniper Scouts, possibly with Telion, in the backfield. Beyond that I don't want to cut into points for the Deathwing, but it leaves options such as slightly cheaper HS variants. While the Stormraven is now officially in C:SM and could be allied in as a flyer, not being able to embark a DW squad seems like a deal-breaker.

[ErictheGreen]

I won't be able to get the rulebook in my hands until Thursday. Then il add my thoughts to the thread rather than go off speculation. Mainly because I, too, made the mistake of thinking our cyclones got the flakk due to the different wording in the FAQ.

[Russell's teapot]

Unfortunately, Dreads have now gone kinda rubbish, especially the venerable ones... To expensive for what they do and easy to destroy. Even Landraiders suck now.. Against the typical AT weapons (Melta, Lascannons) nothing changed (due to AP1/2 rules), but with new HP rules they got very vulnerable to glances, which are pretty easy to get..

Yep, dreads are now absolute bunkum. At least we understand why Ward made them so OP in the GK codex, they were always in line for a nerf...

LRs are much better than they were before. Yes, blowing up hasn't changed, but I can live with that, I'm still only worried by melta in that regard. BUT they have a massive survivability boost in terms of glancing.

- They almost always get a 5++ cover save as only 25% needs to be covered (terminators now grant saves to LRs)
- Glances don't roll on the table - you can't stop the 250 points of 25 shots from shooting by glancing
- We're still an assault tank, pretty much the only one left in the game - no one else can assault out of a vehicle (except open topped ones I think)
- Glances don't roll on the table - you can't stop our 250 points of assault tank goodness in its tracks by glancing

Add in:

- Plasmas now reliably stop transports
- Plasmas are needed by other armies to get through 2++ at range
- Meltas therefore become less prevelant (but obviously won't go away)
- We have storm shield on our troops and therefore don't care about plasma anyway

Allies? Stuff allies. The teapot is back, baby!

[grave digger]

So, how do tanks and shooting work now? I've heard the rumors but now I'd like to hear the facts.

Oh, you can still assault out of open topped so battlewagons are still cool (the Orkney in me is happy).

Diggs

[Sholto]

Shrike could grant Infiltrate to a unit of Ravenwing bikers, who could then Scout move to within 12" of the enemy lines and DWA within 6" of all of them on Turn 1. If only we could have Belial in that set-up :P

[Enigma6]

Is it worth keeping a techmarine in an important land raider to keep it alive forever? Or is each point still to precious them on this trick?

[Lion El Jason]

To be honest, a Techmarine doesn't trigger my "Non-pure Deathwing" senses so much, I mean, someone has to repair those tanks right?
With First blood making Dreadnoughts basically unusable if you go the land raider route, its a pretty good buy for those points. Even if all he does is restore a hull point per turn thats nice for Land Raiders.


I think the second power for dark angels is barely getting used! Prescience is almost an auto-include making a libby now an uber-chappy but we need a power to use in the opponents turn for the other one. More testing to do for now.


Diggs, the new movement rules are basically if the vehicle couldn't shoot in 5th then it shoots at BS1 in 6th.
So moving 6" you get 1 at full BS the rest are snap shots. Moving at 12" everything is BS1.

[Enigma6]

I'm thinking that even in a shooty list (which I do still like the sound of) the sarge should probably always be THSS for challenges.

[Elios Harg]

I'm thinking that even in a shooty list (which I do still like the sound of) the sarge should probably always be THSS for challenges.

I was actually thinking a lightning claw or power sword sarge was ideal for challenges as you could take that Power Fist/Axe sarge out by himself and let the rest of your squad wipe out the unit.

With regards to Land Raiders, snap fire has given us a mild boost in fire power. We can now move 6" and fire 2 weapons at BS plus the rest as snap fire (small nerf to the crusader as it used to be able to fire everything at BS when moving 6", but a nice bump to the Godhammer as it can now fire all 3 weapons when moving 6", with 2 as BS). When moving 12", we can fire 1 weapon at BS and still fire everything else as snap fire. As most all of our land raider weaponry is twin-linked except for the Multimeltas, we at least get 2 chances to roll a 6 to hit.

Other factors to note, Ezekiel and Azrael have both gotten better at close combat with their 2+ saves, though they do only have AP3 now. The only power we can use in our opponents' turn is the force weapon, I believe. The best part is that blessings last until the end of the following turn, so our Librarians can cast Prescience (or another blessing) and then get re-rolls to hit with their ID causing force weapon in the opponent's turn. Zeke and his fellow librarians are actually scarier in the opponent's assault phase than our own. At 2000+, I'll likely be taking both Ezekiel and a terminator librarian so that I can get access to even more divination powers.

Edit: I still think that 3 TH/SS, 1 Lightning Claw, 1 Chain Fist is a pretty great set up for Assault Deathwing. Just now, I would prefer the Sergeant to have the Lightning Claw in most cases, though the TH/SS isn't bad either, you challenge an IC and worst case scenario fail a 3++ and die before you can attack, but the IC still only causes 1 wound. If the IC doesn't kill the Sergeant, however, there's a good chance that IC is dead.

[Captain Collius]

It probably depends on your Meta for challenges I tend to run into DE, and Terminator armies so my favored style to combat this is TH/SS. In fact the only thing that hurt my army was wyches with haywire grenades assaulting the building we were in.

[sverigesson]

If the Battle Brothers rule makes no exception for using allied transports (no word of that in rumours I saw), our terminators can bring a platoon of guardsmen to guard objectifves and commandeer their Chimeras for themselves. Even if only for first turn dash, that's transports for entire army for price of single Land Raider.

Rulebook says: Can't use your allies transports for you main army's troops, or vice versa.

[Captain Collius]

Rulebook says: Can't use your allies transports for you main army's troops, or vice versa.

I saw this my dreams died.

Ohh well Everyone back in your raiders LETS GO.

Ohh and i disagree about dreads mine stood up very well in our game. He took on a deamon prince and lived.

Also against Dark Eldar, Tactical term squads are fantastic especially if one brother brought a missile launcher.

Also Ezekial had his Supporters in the last edition is he worth it now? I think a standard Librarian may offer as much help for little cost.