At a guess, Belial will be around 200 points but tougher/better. Our storm shields and cyclones will be more expensive (+5 points for storm shields based on Blood angels, 30 points for a cyclone to bring it in line with the other marines). I'm hoping we get some other Deathwing units/options to compensate otherwise it will be an all around nerf for Deathwing. Though, I'm guessing Ravenwing and our Battle Companies will get better.
I suspect to make room for the projected points hike dropping a DW squad for a unit of sniper scouts or two (if the Aegis line is good) and spreading the leftovers to taste.
Originally Posted by SgtTaters
I'm curious about use of the Gate psychic power within a Deathwing force. In my own Ultramarines army, I field two ranged units of Terminators, each along side a Terminator Librarian with The Gate equivalent from Codex Space Marines. After dotting the battlefield with a few locator beacons and teleport homers (drop pods, scouts, or in your case, Ravenwing) I use the Gate to teleport my units to the best locations around the battlefield to maximise thier shooting/minimise the enemy retaliations. When using Teleport Homers, Terminator units (and ONLY Terminator units - Librarian included) do not scatter when deep striking. It's a case of repeat ad nauseum, shooting the hell out of anything you can, then teleporting away when the enemy forces get too close or start to overwhelm you. At least the first time you do this, the enemy doesn't see it coming and more than once, I have been able to pull enemy forces away/lead them on, before teleporting beside the softer targets and vehicle rears that have left unguarded. As I said, I use Codex Marines, so I can be garunteed this power, but even then, the overall tactic seems very well suited to Deathwing armies, perhaps with more polishing than I have put across in this post.
Last edited by Lantern; 04-07-2012 at 21:53. Reason: Numerous Spelling Errors
A points hike I can deal with (might even open up some fun new things for us to try) but I don't think I could deal with losing the ability to take a CML on a TH/SS guy. I think that would break the army (and possibly the game as I don't really like any other armies at all) for me.
Maybe a Belial which is like Lysander, with making DW Terminators Troops and possibility to upgrade a DW Squad with Apo/Banner.
I would bet my last shirt DW units get more expensive (SS/Heavy Weapons) but I guess there will be a bundle of nice rules in exchange.
For example: Scatter only 1D6, up to 10 man per squad, heroic intervention
This as rules upgrade in exchange for increased point cost would be huge and welcomed.
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The randomization of powers of course makes this impossible to plan for. You could ally in a SM Libby and have them bounce around Ravenwing and SM scout homers.
I'm not entirely sure I'd want to though as Terminator shooting isn't that great, especially now that everyone with a Rapid Fire gun can move and shoot at 24".
Prescience (as a Primaris power) is looking like our default Power, I might have a try for GoI as a second but wouldn't be too bothered if I didn't get it.
I get my rulebook tonight. Expect a mammoth post over the weekend. It may well cover things we've already gone over but I like to be thorough.
From the games played at our club, I have an inkling that double wing with bikers may make a comeback for me
^^^^ Are you using your bikers as Plasma caddies ? Be interested to hear how they work out in this regard
Please don't post about what should be in the thread. We had the old thread "Pure Deathwing only" for a while and to be honest ran out of stuff worth talking about.
If you take Belial and use Terminator Troops this is the thread. TBH we also like to hear from GK and SW terminator players as they have some of the same issues and the crossover can help all of us learn what we can do.
I don't mind speculation on the Codex, but if you can put it in a post that also contributes to the new tactics ideas I think that would be best overall. On that note there is a pic of a mix & match Deathwing squad in the rulebook. No heavy weapon but it has TH&SS, TLC, SB&PF and a Sgt.
Last edited by Lion El Jason; 05-07-2012 at 11:36.
Bartali, from the changes I have seen/read about, both plasma caddy bikers and melta bikers are an option. It's something I will cover when Ive read their capabilities more thoroughly
Well i played my second game of this new edition against Dark Eldar with Eldar allies.
He ran
Archon
Incubi with Drazhar Klaivex with all the fixings on a raider
Blasterborn on a venom
2 wych squads in raiders
3 Void raven Bombers
Allied eldar Autarch -plain no upgrades (as far as i know it played no part in the game)
5 pathfinders
I ran
Belial
Librarian (I love you Prescience)
1 Deathwing command squad 5 TH/SS AP BB
2 Deathwing squads with TH/SS CML
1 Deathwing squad with 4 SB/PF 1 SB/PW 1 CML
2 MM/TML Speeders
1 AC/HB/SB pred
The game was the diagonal deployment and d3+2 objectives we had 5.
The early game reinforced to me how shooty the dark eldar are. i lost most of the commands squad with Belial and Libby. However I did end up winning 7-5 on VP as I controlled two objectives and slew his archon (warlord).
Some thoughts:
1. With Anti Air Firepower flyer heavy lists would really hurt a Deathwing without a lot of shields. ( you hit on sixes and they get a cover save. Not good.) The bombers didn't hurt me that badly but that had more to do with bad rolls.
2. Snipers mean that the Command squad has to be loaded up in a Transport or you are in trouble.
3. Deathwing 5 TH/SS now means our basic squad can take on your best assault unit and they can't touch us. I lost a single terminator (in the 4 round of assault) when my 5 man d-wing hit the Incubi Drazhar and the Archon oh and my Challenge sgt. smushed him an archon.
4. MM Speeders just ain't worth it give them a heavy bolter and move them 12" every time.
5.Librarians with divination are awesome force multipliers.
I plan on taking 2+ in 2000+ point games just because of how great they are now
Someone on another Thread brought up the notion that it's hard to sort out what's going on due to the lack of any coherent Meta while we all sort things out under the new rules...
One thing I will suggest at this point, is reading the other Tacticas before they get huge and unwieldily. There are already many opinions being tossed around about how Metas are going to shake out and where the game is going, so it would be to our benefit to read through how people are planning on dealing with piles of 2+ and lots of Flyers (the two I keep reading about).
Food for thought.
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Certainly true. A lot of players at my local club are just playing our 5th lists for a month or so before adjusting to the new rules with army construction so we get more feel for the new rules with familiar models.
Probably how I'm going to do it as well. No reason to drop all my preds/speeders just because I think they'll suck now.
I'm not a big fan of gearing a list towards meta. I remember seeing some lists towards the end of 5th that were so geared towards playing against MSU Razorbacks, they'd fall over if they played anything else.Someone on another Thread brought up the notion that it's hard to sort out what's going on due to the lack of any coherent Meta while we all sort things out under the new rules...
One thing I will suggest at this point, is reading the other Tacticas before they get huge and unwieldily. There are already many opinions being tossed around about how Metas are going to shake out and where the game is going, so it would be to our benefit to read through how people are planning on dealing with piles of 2+ and lots of Flyers (the two I keep reading about).
Food for thought.
One persons meta could also be another persons poison. The internets meta may be completely different to what somebody is playing against with friends, or at a shop or club. For this reason I always (attempt to) recommend all-comers lists. The questions I always ask myself when list building are ?
1. Can my list play the mission ?
Ie does it have enough durable troops who are also mobile ?
2. Can it deal with light, medium and heavy infantry; and also MCs ?
3. Can it deal with transports and tanks ?
and now
4. Can it deal with fliers
I also try to make sure that when dealing with any of the above, I don't have a single point of failure in the list.
So, within the limits of a purist mech DW list can I deal with all of the above in 6th ?
Belial
Librarian w/ TDA
5x DW w/ 3xTH/SS, TH/SS/CML, SB/CF
5x DW w/ 3xTH/SS, TH/SS/CML, SB/CF
5x DW w/ 3xTH/SS, TH/SS/CML, SB/CF
LRC
LRC
1. Can my list play the mission ?
I’m mobile, but only have three troops and LRCs can no longer contest. I could up my DW squads, but then I’d loose mobility. I suspect I’m not going to know the answer to this without lots of playtesting.
2. Can it deal with light, medium and heavy infantry; and also MCs ?
No problems here with 3 out of 4. Mass light infantry can be troublesome if they have a way of blowing up Raiders – ie Guard.
3. Can it deal with transports and tanks ?
Absolutely no problems here – Twin Linked Assault Cannons, Multi-Meltas, CMLs; and now TH/SS Terminators kick the bottom out of parking lots in assault
4. Can it deal with fliers ?
Hmmmmmm Twin linked ACs and Prescience on a CML will help, but will struggle against multiple AV12 fliers. Hopefully I can ignore and play the rest of their army and mission.
Probably nothing new for most people, hope it helps for anyone new to 40k reading this thread.
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Added to 2nd post.
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Reading through the other Tacticas, I'm suprised how little DW is being talked up as potential allies (at least for those codexs where you don't need to ally in AA).
Belail, 5x TH/SS+CML, (with options for apoth and/or banner) seems like an auto-include for quite a few lists. Who doesn't love fearless scoring TH/SS Terminators with a CML ?
I haven't had a chance to read through the other threads yet. What are people discussing?
I think most people are still trying to get their heads around the changes - allies are hardly being discussed at all.
As an example SM/DW list
Belial w/ TH/SS
SM Libby w/ TDA, SS
5x DW TH/SS, CML
2x 10 Tacticals w/ Plasma, ML, Rhino
2x Stormtalons
3x AC/HB Preds
Seems pretty darn solid for around 1500pts
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