Comprehensive guide to Eldar runes & symbols

[chandrila]

Actually, one thing that bothers me (which GW did) is when the Dark Kin are mentioned they use a different form of strokes which doesn't really make sense when you consider these are 'language glyphs'. I've attached my interpretation of what the 'Dark Kin' rune for Craftworld Eldar should look like, while the current one is what they write with Dark Eldar script — there may be 1000s of years between the two as the Craftworlders left (or didn't contact the core worlds) a while before the fall so may have had different script evolution.

Attachment 144433

True, but the same "spiky" script is used for a handful of other runes too, like "Soul-drinker" - it could be that the change in stroke indicates a change in meaning, or is used for a set of runes with a similar meaning. In this case, probably the more abhorrent concepts/practices that the Dark Eldar embody.

[Lord Damocles]

I coudn't see the rune from the top of the old warp portal terrain piece on the list. The runes around the edges of the base are included though by the looks of it.

[Poseidal]

True, but the same "spiky" script is used for a handful of other runes too, like "Soul-drinker" - it could be that the change in stroke indicates a change in meaning, or is used for a set of runes with a similar meaning. In this case, probably the more abhorrent concepts/practices that the Dark Eldar embody.

My main problem is that that sort of stroke variation is a 'style' rather than conveying a clear meaning. If it is something that could be mistaken at a quick glance (if the same rune with 'un-jaggy' features meant something differently) it fails as a rune.

The equivalent is in a novel where all the villains speech is printed in Blackletter while the rest of the book is in Roman.

My drawing is the same glyph, but with a different stroke style. The difference for the Eldar and Dark Eldar runes in appearance is like the difference between Roman and Blackletter, while language changes would have different strokes and different glyphs if they don't have the same language.

[chandrila]

My main problem is that that sort of stroke variation is a 'style' rather than conveying a clear meaning. If it is something that could be mistaken at a quick glance (if the same rune with 'un-jaggy' features meant something differently) it fails as a rune.

The equivalent is in a novel where all the villains speech is printed in Blackletter while the rest of the book is in Roman.

My drawing is the same glyph, but with a different stroke style. The difference for the Eldar and Dark Eldar runes in appearance is like the difference between Roman and Blackletter, while language changes would have different strokes and different glyphs if they don't have the same language.

Yes, though it depends how you look at the runes - as designs that we, as human "real world" people see them, or as an actual alien language. If the latter, it could be argued that the exact appearance of the rune rather than just the geometric design alone, conveys the meaning. So the different variants of a rune (like the different ones for individual Craftworlds, or Aspects) could in fact have subtly different meaning for all we know. Or the blockier design you've put together for the Dark Eldar is equally valid. Who knows!

[chandrila]

I coudn't see the rune from the top of the old warp portal terrain piece on the list. The runes around the edges of the base are included though by the looks of it.

Thanks, I'll add that to the miscellaneous section.

[Lord Damocles]

Thanks, I'll add that to the miscellaneous section.

Having just checked the actual model, the other side of the pyramid also has the same rune, but upside down.

[chandrila]

Having just checked the actual model, the other side of the pyramid also has the same rune, but upside down.

Ah, cool - I'm not including distortions, reflections or rotations for the sake of simplicity, but thanks for checking. Do you mean to say that you have the actual model that was featured in that issue of White Dwarf, or was it some kind of cardboard template job?

[Lord Damocles]

Ah, cool - I'm not including distortions, reflections or rotations for the sake of simplicity, but thanks for checking. Do you mean to say that you have the actual model that was featured in that issue of White Dwarf, or was it some kind of cardboard template job?

The model was a pop-out cardboard piece which came free with that issue of White Dwarf.

I have two

[Poseidal]

Yes, though it depends how you look at the runes - as designs that we, as human "real world" people see them, or as an actual alien language. If the latter, it could be argued that the exact appearance of the rune rather than just the geometric design alone, conveys the meaning. So the different variants of a rune (like the different ones for individual Craftworlds, or Aspects) could in fact have subtly different meaning for all we know. Or the blockier design you've put together for the Dark Eldar is equally valid. Who knows!

Yes, there is that alien variation but I would imagine they would be using those effects to convey feelings or a feel like they do, but it does look silly (we can do the same with our letterforms currently, like my Blackletter/Roman novel example, and that is a less silly looking example).

The main reasons are these two:

1. Scripts we know about here operate on the strokes, with variations allowing for different looks from the writing material (the medium it was written with affects it a lot; writing on a stone tablet, with a broad-nib pen or brush are all very different).

2. Eldar minds are explicitly stated to operate similar to human ones (but more intense).

I also get the impression the Eldar language operates more similarly to east-Asian languages than Latin based ones. With a lot of their runes specifically regarding a particular concept or legend, do they have a phonetic script too?

[Idaan]

I also get the impression the Eldar language operates more similarly to east-Asian languages than Latin based ones. With a lot of their runes specifically regarding a particular concept or legend, do they have a phonetic script too?

It seems so. There are a lot of inscriptions that don't quite follow the pattern you'd expect from symbolic runes, and look more like sentences written in some sort of alphabet. They look more angular and streamlined too, so maybe they're some form of "hieratic" alphabet used for mundane tasks - the ones I marked in the attachment look like technical instructions like you'd see on an airplane.

[chandrila]

It seems so. There are a lot of inscriptions that don't quite follow the pattern you'd expect from symbolic runes, and look more like sentences written in some sort of alphabet. They look more angular and streamlined too, so maybe they're some form of "hieratic" alphabet used for mundane tasks - the ones I marked in the attachment look like technical instructions like you'd see on an airplane.

Yeah, and each of those runes have appeared elsewhere, so they do have meanings on their own. I'm pretty sure all those component runes should be in the guide already (pretty much al of them under "miscellaneous" though).

[Hendarion]

Actually, one thing that bothers me (which GW did) is when the Dark Kin are mentioned they use a different form of strokes which doesn't really make sense when you consider these are 'language glyphs'. I've attached a quick sketch my interpretation of what the 'Dark Kin' rune for Craftworld Eldar should look like, while the current one is what they write with Dark Eldar script — there may be 1000s of years between the two as the Craftworlders left (or didn't contact the core worlds) a while before the fall so may have had different script evolution.
Attachment 144433

Well, it could be that:
1) Runes are not just words, they are representations - as we see for example the titans and aspects, bound to shapes, behaviours and maybe even feelings. So the "evil" shape sounds reasonable to me.
2) The DE-runes may be overtaken from the Dark Kin actually, that these had been created or at least "altered" to their current form. It then would make sense for CWE to overtake these too.

Edit:
I got badly nijna'ed.

[Poseidal]

The thing about the 'evil shapes' is it's like my example of the novel setting all villain text in a sinister typeface compared with a standard roman used in the rest of the book. We also know there are variations of glyphs, which have the same meaning (albeit a different feeling, but that's true for different script types) like the Fire Dragon rune.

I do think it looks a bit jarring when the rest of the piece is set in EIN 1451 (Eldar Institut für Normung) and you have one or two glyphs in Archon Courthand that look totally out of place.

[TheDoctor]

Thanks for the guide! Ive been inspired to do runes on my helmest now!

[Poseidal]

@chandrila
@Idaan

Are there any identifiably glyphs in the 'alphabet' glyphs? At the moment the structure looks like the Kanji / Kana characters in Japanese, with one being the symbolic Chinese characters and the other being the phonetic alphabet but it could have a different hierarchy for Eldar script.

[Tindalos]

It seems so. There are a lot of inscriptions that don't quite follow the pattern you'd expect from symbolic runes, and look more like sentences written in some sort of alphabet. They look more angular and streamlined too, so maybe they're some form of "hieratic" alphabet used for mundane tasks - the ones I marked in the attachment look like technical instructions like you'd see on an airplane.

Gav Thorpe mentions here, that in discussions with Jes Goodwin, that there's three styles/scripts used by the Eldar.
1: The classic Ideograms, the "Runes", where each symbol represents a concept.
2: The Pictograms found on Titans, which show a stylised representation of the Titan amongst other runes.
3: The Logograms used for general writing, the nearest thing they have to an Eldar "Alphabet", such as those "hieratic" runes in your attached picture.

That third style is found in numerous places in the 3rd edition codex, as Gav notes, and a more cursive form of it might be the text shown in the army list section of the 4th edition codex (behind the army section headers).

[Idaan]

Yeah, I thought I heard something like that before, but couldn't find it in Jes' notes.

[chandrila]

Gav Thorpe mentions here, that in discussions with Jes Goodwin, that there's three styles/scripts used by the Eldar.
1: The classic Ideograms, the "Runes", where each symbol represents a concept.
2: The Pictograms found on Titans, which show a stylised representation of the Titan amongst other runes.
3: The Logograms used for general writing, the nearest thing they have to an Eldar "Alphabet", such as those "hieratic" runes in your attached picture.

That third style is found in numerous places in the 3rd edition codex, as Gav notes, and a more cursive form of it might be the text shown in the army list section of the 4th edition codex (behind the army section headers).

Wow, that's very helpful - thanks. Didn't realise that Gave had posted on here in the past. I may have to look at reorganising the guide based on that information. He is right - the "alphabet" runes used in long strings (transfers, codex art, IA11) don't seem to ever include the more traditional runes (like those for craftworlds or Aspects). And yeah, the Titan runes are much more complex than the rest too. Makes sense when you think about it!

[Gropius]

The Eldar runes seem to have a lot in common with written chinese. The extremely different scripts can also be found in chinese. Compare the seal script with the gras script: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese...uage#Evolution
The seal script reminds me of the pictograms for the titans, while the gras script looks like the runes onthe cover of "path of the seer"

[Poseidal]

I'm interested in knowing if the 'instructional' glyphs on the vehicles be compound from larger glyphs or a separate glyph set. With Chinese there are two main sets, though both are closely related (one being a simplified version of the other) but the historical variations are not used. Japanese use many Chinese glyphs but have supporting phonetic alphabets to accompany it which are quite different. Korean has a smaller character set than Chinese, though beyond that I don't know much about it. What of the other Asiatic languages?

Eldar looks to me either like the Japanese system or like the Chinese system with a distinct hierarchal system for 'sub-runes' for text-use (opposed to display use).