Vehicles with hull points
Shooting at a charging unit/Overwatch
Wall-of-Fire with a flamer at a charging unit
Space Marines using krak grenades against monstrous creatures in melee.
Sure sounds like fun to play 'nids in 6th.
Nids to Nots
Vehicles with hull points
Shooting at a charging unit/Overwatch
Wall-of-Fire with a flamer at a charging unit
Space Marines using krak grenades against monstrous creatures in melee.
Sure sounds like fun to play 'nids in 6th.
- Voloch -
-If you're gonna go down:
Go loud! Go strong! Go proud! Go on! Go hard or go home!
Technically vehicles recieved a nerfing with hull points although it is harder to one shot them now they are easier to just wear down with glances so the vehicle meta changing will help nids a little. This is going to be balanced out though by shooting being a lot better than assault or so it appears anyways. Right now I think we have to wait and see what our FAQ-Errata brings. I think that will spell out our path in 6th. Personally I think with the price issues in the nid dex we are just going to have to wait for a new codex. I expect nids to stay about on par with what they are now maybe gaining in a few ways but losing in others. So we will end up not good but not bad either just sort of "meh" for the time being.Originally Posted by Voloch
It is better to have a gun and not need it rather than need a gun and not have it.
You are aware that hullpoints is ENTIRELY a buff to nids right? In that its a rule that hurts every army except nids...
Overwatch vs. being reliably faster at crossing the table. Nids win out on that.
Also, I'd hardly call flamers a "wall of fire". D3 hits is fairly pitiful.
As for krak: 1/3 the attacks, for 3x the wounds. sounds fair enough to me.
So yes. Nids are completely screwed...
Last edited by xxRavenxx; 28-06-2012 at 20:05.
I actually think nids are about to become amazing, not top tier but back up in contention.
Decent powers to gain along with their own, vehicles much more killable. Flying things are beasts on the table. No more fearless death nonsense. At 2,000 points you get MORE elites, plenty of options in there that everyone would like. Venomthropes sound like a great choice now.
Monstrous creatures sound over all much better! Lastly, wound dodgy moves don't apply to tyranids, they are uniform. You can't hide wounds and never could. Now no one else can either.
Read the book, play a few games. Decide after that.
I'm reserving judgement until I read the new rules although I am nervous about how my nids are going to fair, although not for any of the reasons given by the OP. Stuff like overwatch is a fairly minor change to the game and probably there to discourage people from just declaring charges at maximum range on the offchance. Rather, its the reduction in most cover from 4+ to 5+ and the ability to target parts of a unit out of cover that worry me. Nids are already a very fragile army and rely on cover to cross the table. Reducing cover save (and also feel no pain from catalyst) reduces the survivability of the entire army. And where before a large brood could keep half its models in cover for a save now the enemy can start by just gunning down the half that isn't.
I'm keen to read through the actual rules + the accompanying nid FAQ and play a few games before declaring "doom!" but for me any reduction in resilience will hit hard, regardless if it is matched with an increase in killing power or not.
I think the OP has misunderstood hull points. It will help, especially in combat where large broods equipped with adrenal glands (S4 on charge) can wobble vehicles to death with massed attacks.
I tend to think nids gained a lot this edition.
MCs are better (besides carnies but thats alright), fearless wounds gone, hullpoints, wound allocation (it does slow them down a bit, but you don't have to worry about it), pile in at Int, cover at 25%, and the biggie units that disembark from a non-assault vehicle can't assault.
The wild card is how they handle nid weapons, but I have to think with how much they want for the bone sword packs they'll make them ap 2
Yeah... Hull points, no more fearless wounds, MC's getting a comparative buff, and jump infantry/ flying creatures getting a buff (Gargoyles strike at Init 10? Hell yeah!) all are a great buff for nids.
On the other hand random charge ranges, nerfs to cover and FnP, and grenades and firing into assault, all take a toll on nids as well. The question is what will have the greater impact?
Project Tomb World: Here
Well, I'm glad so many disagree with me.
I've only managed to view the trailers on the GW website and you obviously have other info. Ofc that's not a lot to go from, but it just sounded like the nids got the short end of the stick.
Yes, read the book and then decide Kijamon, I'll do that. I just felt screwed before I even got to read the rules.
- Voloch -
-If you're gonna go down:
Go loud! Go strong! Go proud! Go on! Go hard or go home!
Random charges won't be too bad, not being able to fleet first sucks though. FnP will hurt a bit, grenades I don't know enough about, and overwatch seems a bit underwhelming. Its gonna take a long time to really have a handle on the edition.
Look in the rumour section, never trust GW to tell you whats good or not they want to sell models (its what they're in business to do I don't want that to sound like a rant). In addition Nids have been updated every edition, guard & vanilla marines are the only other fractions that can claim that so they'll get fixed.
If I played Tyranids I'd be more worried about how they will handle the new Zooming Flyers with no AA guns or Flyers of their own.
Same could be said for other fractions. I think harpies will get skyfire, and It wouldn't shock me if vectored attacks could hit them.
Not to mention that Nids have one of the highest concentrations of Jump Infantry in any book, and if the rumors of "impact hits" for charging jump infantry are true, Nids just became viable overnight.
"From the fires of betrayal, Unto the blood of revenge, We bring the word of Lorgar, The Bearer of the Word, The favored son of Chaos; All praise be given unto him, For those that would not heed, We offer praise to those that do, That they might turn their gaze our way, And gift us with the boon of pain, To turn the galaxy red with blood, and feed the hunger of the Gods." - Excerpt of the 341st book of the Epistles of Lorgar.
Waaagh! Gutzag - my first 40K Plog
Raveners ignore terrain, can climb and xtra attacks out of synapse. No grenades? F$*k grenades, they don't need them.
Not sure how you get to that. As far as I can see nids have 2 HQ and 3 FA slots for JI, like most books that have it at all. In fact other than BA and Tau I don't recall any codex that has JI elsewhere.
Awesome. Awesome to the head.
Also, it'll be night fight for the first turn half of the time, and night fight on the second turn a quarter of the time. NOt reliable enough for tournament players perhaps, but when it happens you will be regularly be getting s*** hot cover saves until you get into combat. I think this is one of the major rules that will craft the 'meta' for the whole edition, but we shall see.....
As far as handling flyers. Winged MCs can vector strike flyers hitting them on side armor.
Ready for eternal war!
The (apparent) lack of death to fearless losers is a major, major boon to tyranids.
Flamers are cute, but eh. Numbers or MCs. Whatever.
Another big thing nids get is psychic powers. To a ridiculous degree, in fact: if you really, really want to, a tyranid army can put 17 psykers on the field. [6 broodlords, 9 zoanthropes, 2 tyrants/tervigons in HQ]. And they get some tasty power selections. Hive tyrants with +d3 S & T? Sure!
Nice shark, pretty shark.
Wait, what? I haven't been keeping up with the rules rumors...does Move Through Cover actually lets you ignore Cover when assaulting? If so, then 'Nids will get a huge boost and I agree with not needing Grenades.
No more wounds from fearless seems one of the greatest buffs to my eyes, as that'll be the thing generally killing off your big gribblies, and lots of your small gribblies, in CC. Seeing as I'm mostly a fantasy player I can't accurately judge how important it is, but it seems HUGE.
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This is horrible for Tyranids. Do you even know what you're saying?
Tyranid units will do the same amount of damage they did in 5th, except the kill-zone will fill back up with models who get to deal them return blows. Our high initiative became somewhat pointless in big troopers-on-troopers clashes.
You're assuming that Broodlords will get full access to the psychic tables, which is a pretty big assumption.
This only applies to Raveners. Beasts ignore terrain with regards to the distance they move. They still have I1 if they cross terrain into an assault.
I agree that this is by far the biggest advantage available for nids to claim in 6th. Combine that with an Aegis Defense line, Venomthropes potentially giving 4+ cover saves against close range shooting, and models getting cover off of 25% obscurement and it seems very possible to cover your advance all the way up the board.
Last edited by Balerion; 29-06-2012 at 03:02.
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