Tyranid Tactica 6th Edition

[rocdocta]

i am glad i impulse bought 4 when they came out. still in blisters cos they are crap at the moment.

[Nicho]

I'm assuming (or... hoping?) that the "Harrier" build will be an anti-air FMC. I don't ever want to feel compelled to own a Pyrovore now that they're only available in Finecast.

I bought some but i use them as biovores lol

[Angelwing]

Luckily I bought 3 pyrovores as at some edition point they would be awsome. Currently for fliers, I do what I did against my opponents nightwing and thunderbolts in 5th ed. Ignore them and squish the rest of their force instead.

[Xerkics]

Balls and i converted a harpy out of a flyrant, hope the new model isnt better looking heh

[itcamefromthedeep]

Luckily I bought 3 pyrovores as at some edition point they would be awsome.

As I recall Whirlwinds are still waiting.

[rocdocta]

lol. whirlwinds.

[Brotheroracle]

lol. whirlwinds.

Well they look cool, that has to count for something. Right?

[itcamefromthedeep]

Well they look cool, that has to count for something. Right?

Best presentation at a tournament I suppose.

It could also be handy when gunning for best sportsman.

With the new allies rules I suppose it could be a counts-as Manticore.

---

So I've been toying with the idea of 4 Hive Tyrants at 2k for a tournament. It just gets hard not to switch out a Tyrant+Guard for 2 Tervigons.

Are Hive Tyrants just honestly worth the price tag this edition? When they bring those spiffy new psychic powers and Old Adversary along with precision shots on those devourers, are they simply good enough to justify that astronomical price tag?

[Carnage]

Best presentation at a tournament I suppose.

It could also be handy when gunning for best sportsman.

With the new allies rules I suppose it could be a counts-as Manticore.

---

So I've been toying with the idea of 4 Hive Tyrants at 2k for a tournament. It just gets hard not to switch out a Tyrant+Guard for 2 Tervigons.

Are Hive Tyrants just honestly worth the price tag this edition? When they bring those spiffy new psychic powers and Old Adversary along with precision shots on those devourers, are they simply good enough to justify that astronomical price tag?

It really depends on how they rule FMC and grounding tests. If they are still hit on 6s after being grounded then I'd say...meh, borderline. If they are hit normally after grounded then they are junk, just like last edition.

[Frankly]

Are Hive Tyrants just honestly worth the price tag this edition? When they bring those spiffy new psychic powers and Old Adversary along with precision shots on those devourers, are they simply good enough to justify that astronomical price tag?

Generally I think the question is how much do you rate Old Adversary + Paroxym. Or maybe how much your list can defend a shelled/guard HT to keep him in position to get the most out of his support value.

Unless your running a HT for OA in a list with a really strong shooting phase or has hordes of gants, then I can't see their value for points being better than Tervigons on the table top.

Even so, a walking HT brings a fare bit to the table, Shell + regen + T.guard + FnP makes an affective 'tank' for a unit thats already a fire magnet. Not only is OA pretty strong on huge termagant units in the shooting phase, but OA + Paroxysm + the same termagant units in combat have been really effective at milling down depleted targets and reasonable in straight out combats with tervigon buffs on them. HTs are also an effective fire support and counter assault unit when the situations call for either or both.

The problem is getting a HT into a situation where his buffs affect the game so much they off set his points cost or his supporting abilities are in position to be used, all the while trying to keep him out of harms way. Its a juggling act than can really fall apart against some lists, I've seen alot of lists starting to stack plasma for example which can push my HT to the back field and sometimes out of position. Tervigons primary role is to buff the gants and hand out FnPs so theres alot less positioning problems for them, especially when spammed, it means they can pretty much always be in positive situations for your list.

I'm generally running:

HT, Guard
Tervigon

2 x 3 Hive Guard
Venomthrope

Tervigon
Tervigon
Termagants
Termagants
Termagants
Stealers

2 x 2 Biovores

.... and I'd honestly think about dropping the HT if I didn't have so much shooting + termagants and that shooting wasn't the only semi-effective thing against flyers.

[metro_gnome]

I think tyrants are way outta line as well... and with the beating 6th gave the Prime...
I think the only HQ worth taking is the Tervi... with claws...
I only run one... but it does free up a troop space... I just don't know what to use it for...
Are stealers really that badly hosed? Can MSU infiltrating work? How small is too small?

Also I've noticed that TFexes were thoroughly slammed earlier in the thread...
and I can't see why they are any worse than they were in 5th... except supposed less vehicles...
less onslaught? m0aR Ap2? Anybody want to help me see the light?

[kaptin_blacksquigg]

Also I've noticed that TFexes were thoroughly slammed earlier in the thread...
and I can't see why they are any worse than they were in 5th... except supposed less vehicles...
less onslaught? m0aR Ap2? Anybody want to help me see the light?

I don't think that TFexes have got any worse, the thing is that now vehicles are easier to munch in combat, you just don't need the rupture cannon as much any more, so it'd hard to justify the points cost.

[kaptin_blacksquigg]

Also I've noticed that TFexes were thoroughly slammed earlier in the thread...
and I can't see why they are any worse than they were in 5th... except supposed less vehicles...
less onslaught? m0aR Ap2? Anybody want to help me see the light?

I don't think that TFexes have got any worse, the thing is that now vehicles are easier to munch in combat, you just don't need the rupture cannon as much any more, so it'd hard to justify the points cost.

[Threeshades]

I think tyrants are way outta line as well... and with the beating 6th gave the Prime...
I think the only HQ worth taking is the Tervi... with claws...
I only run one... but it does free up a troop space... I just don't know what to use it for...
Are stealers really that badly hosed? Can MSU infiltrating work? How small is too small?

Also I've noticed that TFexes were thoroughly slammed earlier in the thread...
and I can't see why they are any worse than they were in 5th... except supposed less vehicles...
less onslaught? m0aR Ap2? Anybody want to help me see the light?

It's not that they got worse, its just that they have never ben particularly impressive to begin with, paired with the fact that their only trick is now easily, and probably more effectively substitutedfor by CC. Trygons remain the best choice in HS MCs. They even got better, because they now get cover sves ridiculously easily. (just put a gaunt in front of it and one third of Ap3+ wounds will be ineffective)

[Frankly]

I think the only HQ worth taking is the Tervi... with claws...

Like I've said beforehand, if you can get alot out of walking HT, I can see the value in him in certain lists, but yeah Tervigon are all good.

Haven't had a chance to run Claws yet, still wondering if its worth the price tag. I run regen so Terigons are pretty clostly in my list already.

I've been running a small unit of stealers as a counter assault unit to help out when CC is turning into a horror to behold. Still not sure if its a strong selection. Maybe Y.Stealers are a better utility unit.

Has anyone noticed that the movement phase mobility has begun to become alittle move restricted, I mean less transports, pods, DS'ing, infiltating. The game has become alittle more static. Which is a very good thing for Nidz imho.

[kaptin_blacksquigg]

just put a gaunt in front of it and one third of Ap3+ wounds will be ineffective

Errr, I don't think a guant quite covers 25% of a Trygon.
That said, area terrain works a treat.

[itcamefromthedeep]

Also I've noticed that TFexes were thoroughly slammed earlier in the thread...
and I can't see why they are any worse than they were in 5th... except supposed less vehicles...
less onslaught? m0aR Ap2? Anybody want to help me see the light?

Tyrannofexes were brought in 5e for the purpose of killing tanks at range, supplementing Hive Guard, Zoanthropes and occasionally Ymgarl Genestealers.

In absolute terms (independent of the rest of the codex) the Tyrannofex doesn't have AP2, meaning that the vehicle damage chart is less favorable relative to 5e (it's harder to kill a vehicle outright). This means that the Tyrannofex has neither the volume of fire with the Rupture Cannon to kill vehicles by Hull Points in any kind of timely manner nor the AP to kill vehicles with the damage chart. This made it worse overall for killing vehicles with a Rupture Cannon. Since the Rupture Cannon is the only thing the model brings that isn't outclassed by other similar models, the Tyrannofex got weaker on that count.

In terms of the metagame, the intended targets of a Tyrannofex have become rarer as people move away from armies that consist of a wall of ground vehicles. Now, armies will tend to have more manageable numbers of ground vehicles. Tyrannofexes, being largely a poor supplement for other means of doing the job, had filled a need that is no longer so urgent.

---

Arguably the need for Tyranid ranged anti-tank actually increased with the push toward super-durable flier models dominating the metagame. This would seem to be an argument for keeping a Tyrannofex in a player's army list.

[Transgressor]

Tyrannofexes were brought in 5e for the purpose of killing tanks at range, supplementing Hive Guard, Zoanthropes and occasionally Ymgarl Genestealers.

In absolute terms (independent of the rest of the codex) the Tyrannofex doesn't have AP2, meaning that the vehicle damage chart is less favorable relative to 5e (it's harder to kill a vehicle outright). This means that the Tyrannofex has neither the volume of fire with the Rupture Cannon to kill vehicles by Hull Points in any kind of timely manner nor the AP to kill vehicles with the damage chart. This made it worse overall for killing vehicles with a Rupture Cannon. Since the Rupture Cannon is the only thing the model brings that isn't outclassed by other similar models, the Tyrannofex got weaker on that count.

In terms of the metagame, the intended targets of a Tyrannofex have become rarer as people move away from armies that consist of a wall of ground vehicles. Now, armies will tend to have more manageable numbers of ground vehicles. Tyrannofexes, being largely a poor supplement for other means of doing the job, had filled a need that is no longer so urgent.

---

Arguably the need for Tyranid ranged anti-tank actually increased with the push toward super-durable flier models dominating the metagame. This would seem to be an argument for keeping a Tyrannofex in a player's army list.

Agreed. As it stands right now the Tfex is the perfect storm of low volume of fire, low BS, no AP bonus against vehicles, and a high price tag. I don't see anyone really using them very often as there's just so many other options that do the job better. Although I'm toying with the idea of using their torrent weapon now, as I'm seeing a lot more horde armies running around and he would actually be quite hard to deal with as a shock unit (although slowish).

[metro_gnome]

Arguably the need for Tyranid ranged anti-tank actually increased with the push toward super-durable flier models dominating the metagame. This would seem to be an argument for keeping a Tyrannofex in a player's army list.

hmmm... well that is very thorough... so AP2 is the new 3++ then... even for vehicles... and we have........... none...
well I'm really only looking for a reason to put my Exocrine on the table... so I'll take this heavy flier thing and run with it...
Do you think Old Adversary is a necessity to get the most out of the snapshots froma T.fex (or HG for that matter)?
It's a shame it doesn't have skyfire... or better yet interceptor... then it might be worth the points... come on GW... FAQ it!

I've been running a small unit of stealers as a counter assault unit to help out when CC is turning into a horror to behold. Still not sure if its a strong selection. Maybe Y.Stealers are a better utility unit.

As I am playing well below 2k... I think my elites are still too valuable for Ymgarls...
I am trying to find a new use for my Stealers... I used to run 8 Toxin stealers w/BL on outflank... and another infiltrated...
But now I want to infiltrate all of them... so I wonder if I should go smaller with the units... more places to hide...
Has anyone run bare minimum units in Infiltrate... say 3x5? or is it better to try to find hiding places for 2x8?

[wyvirn]

We have warp lance, bioplasma, monstrous creatures in CC, and bone sabers when not hunting tanks, and rending claws when you're desperate. So the chicken little attitude isn't really warranted on this front.

Spending 200+ points for a 1/36 better snap shots is pretty situational. The only way I could think of to make the OA tyrant effective is in a 3k+ game with 12+ HG in around him, and that's really only good against parking lots or Movie marines.

I'm going to try running at least 4 large squads of genestealers to outflank at the same time and place via Swarmlord. That way you'll hopefully overwhelm the local firing ability and most will get a charge in. Any thoughts (besides the price)?