I didn't ever take the huskblade in 5th as i considered it a waste of points... in sixth is just a joke imho.Originally Posted by Max_Killfactor
I didn't ever take the huskblade in 5th as i considered it a waste of points... in sixth is just a joke imho.
Yeah if it became AP2 it would be comparatively better then it was in 5th ed, because everything else got worse.
Right.
I tried it a few games in 5th and it did okay to bad. Eventually I went back to the agonizer. Now that the agonizer is only AP3, if the huskblade was AP2 it would actually have a point and would be better than 5th because agonizer got worse.
Yeah, unfortunately it is very bad right now. Either needs a massive points drop or changed to AP2.
If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough.
Don't agonizers just wound on a 4+ no armour saves? Was it FAQed to be AP3?
Here's the problem though: if a Huskblade was AP2, why would you ever use any other weapon? It would chew through everything, and totally throw off GW's design of making AP2 at initiative a special thing.
I'd rather the Soul Trap be FAQ'd so that you can get buffed up off of Character, not just ICs. That way you could feed off some sergeants and get buff so the AP3 on the huskblade doesn't matter as much.
Because it's freaking expensive and doesn't help you roll to-wound?
I was being a bit hyperbolic. My point was that GW intends AP2 melee weapons that strike at initiative to be a rare thing so that 2+ saves could also be special. Giving an ID causing AP2 weapon to a high Initative, high weapon skill, multiple attack generic HQ who can take a 2+ invuln would be a terrible idea. It would turn the otherwise interesting mechanic of challenges into a '5+ I win' game for DE.
Which is not to say that the huskblade is pretty bad as it stands right now. It's definitely overcosted. I think it could still be good if they changed the soul trap though.
I don't think it's that OP when you count the fact that it's on a S3, T3 model that will probably die if its save goes away. It's a very all or nothing build both offensively and defensively.
I don't think we should discuss if it'd be overpowered or not at AP2 in this thread anymore. This should be for tactics about current wargear, not what we think wargear should be. Yes, I realize I was the one that brought it up, sorry for sidetracking the thread a little.
I think we can all agree that at AP3, the huskblade is pretty bad for its points... except maybe Hokiecow
If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough.
Well it was changed based on its absence from the FAQ I guess. The rulebook states that anything that is mentioned as a "Power Weapon" and has special rules defaults to User Strength and AP3. Since the Agonizer is defined as a Power Weapon (and not specifically ignoring armor saves) it is AP3.
Terran Forge (not currently updated)
Is a unit of 10 warriors w/ one Cannon in a raider w/ Night Shields and Splinter racks worth taking?
Should I have 10 scourges w/2 HWB and 6 Reavers w/ 2 CLusters+2 HL or should I have 5 Scourges w/ 2 HWB and 9 Reavers w/ 3 Clusters + 3 HL + 3 wracks worth of other stuff (like missiles for Void Raven)?
With the former;
Pros:
* I love scourges
* scourges can wipe out most tanks in one salvo
* Scourges have 12+24 threat radius
* Reavers won't cost above 20 wracks
Cons
* 9 Reavers will have better blade vanes
* 10 scourges cost a lot, will be priority target, and are easily killed.
The later
Pros:
* Scourges cost less, and will be less prioity target
* Reavers got awesome, (although I find the models boring to build and paint and look at)
* 12 move + 36 blade vane turbo*
* Al through the reavers will draw fire, they can take it better than scourges
Con:
* 5 scourges won't wipe out a tank with one salvo.
* Reaver HL has a threat radius of 12+9 (+2d6 escape)
* 9 reavers are just slightly deadlier with their HL any way.
Which is better? Al through I love scourges (I have 20 models), the later seems better.
* RAW: Bladevanes can only be used during the Turbo Boost move, Right?
RAW: Due to FAQ, Void mine Bombing run do not count toward number of weapons allowed for voidraven, right?
RAW: Aethersails won't let you Flat out, Right? (making them only useful in combo with the shock prow)
Also, On AT-planes and missiles:
Last game (5ed), A guy had 2 rhinos with 10 spacewolfs (Blood claws?) each inside, next to each other.
Due to me disembarking a warrior squad nearby, he disembarked all of them, preparing for an assault.
Then my RJF Lucky Lucinda arrives. She Targets one of the rhinos. She lets loose 4 monoschytes first (who scatter wildly), Then she uses her 2 DLs.
1 Rhino with stunned/weapon destroyed. 1 rhino exploded, 14-16 marines dead.
Missiles aren't a waste if there's a vehicle surrounded by infantry on the board. Just use the missiles first, let them scatter, and then finish off the vehicle with the lances. (But never shoot the lances first, or you won't have the chance to let loose the missiles).
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Oh, yes. Better than ever, IMO. I tend to add a blaster and a gruesome talisman, YMMV.
Wait, did you mean 4 HWB for the first one? Anyway, I dunno, I'd probably go with the first one (if you've got 4 HWB) even though I'm not a big scourge fan. I like my reavers in groups of six, and HWB need numbers to get wrecks since they're not very good at suppression any more.
Correct, that's stated in their rules.
*blink* I hadn't noticed that. Might be an oversight, but right now that appears to be the case, yes.
I'm afraid flyers can only unleash two missiles per turn, now.
Yeah, I've used that trick, too.
Um, there's really no order between them. They're all from the same firing unit, so you'll determine all hits before checking for any wounds or penetrations.
That's a good point.
Piccy of damage ratios between Venom Blades and Agonizer, per hit, is attached. Someone else had the bright idea few pages back, but this one also includes what happens for Venom Blades with rerolls (i.e. attacking T3 stuff or with strength buffs). Also has 3+/5++ and 3+/3++ targets (it just gets sad when it's not at at least 3+ armour for the poor Agonizer).
End conclusion? Venom Blades are amazing, considering they cost so very much less than an agonizer.
I didn't include the other power weapons - simply because a) that would make it a lot more complicated to include attacking different T values instead of flat to wound values, and b) they're mostly not that complicated to work out, and you can mostly use the Agonizer stats (most things swinging one in our army are S3. You're either taking a Power Axe, for the Ap2, or a Power Lance, as it's cheaper than the Agonizer. Both of these have 4+ to wound versus T4 things, which is most of the 3+ stuff).
Pretty sure that was meYour graph is way better and more complete though (covering the invuls and re-rolls). Yeah I didn't realize how awesome Venom Blades were until I looked at the outcomes. Other than 3+ Armor it is significantly better in points/value than the Agonizer. I'm actually curious about the different power weapons now though. Maybe I'll run through the numbers tomorrow- might be interesting to compare all of the weapon options on one chart.
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I've come up with an idea to mix Urien with fabias bile. In a "Who is the best flesh crafter" army. Uber Grots and enhanced marines. All I need is a catchy name for the army.
As vehicles are weaker, what would happen if dark eldar completely forgot about their vehicles and went at 2000pts for example:
1998pts
6 Haemonculi - 3 with Liquifier Guns
6x20 Warriors (2x Splinter Cannon, 1xblaster)
3x8 Trueborn - 2 Blasters, 6 Shardcarbines
150 models, with snapfire against charges reducing enemy CC power. It's definitely not a tournament army due to its weakness to templates and high number of shot armies but against armies primarily kitted with AP2/AP3 with fewer shots, it could swarm the board. Also using the assumption of night fighting half the time, providing the equivalent of cover when advancing. With missions relying on objectives more, the squads have to be decimated to prevent at least contesting most of the field.
it's not week against templates, seeing as youll have cover and FNP Id add the baron though to give your lead squad hit and run, then point blank blast them on your turn.
The problem of the list it isnt the templates but its lack of anti-tank.I dont see a reason why the kabalites should have a blaster,you seriously think of losing all those poison shots just for a single str 8?IMO the trueborn are better with full blasters so each unit has its own unique role.Still a weak list.
Weak in 5th maybe, but in 6th, not so much Anything not a leman russ, is plopping 4 guys tops after FnP and or cover/GtG. The nerfto assaulting from vehicles means people will stand around doing nothing for a turn. He can camp Objectives and shoot/overwatch, till the end times. Add the fact that you can'y score in tanks means you have to get out, and dis lodge at least two units to win. and that means a tac squad eating 40 raidfire shots, then 20 more on overwatch. Ignore the fliers and death stars, dig in at objectives, and win.
I agree it's going to hit a fair few problems and the blasters are a byproduct of simply taking a standard 5th warrior squad out of a raider and doubling them up. The solitary blaster in warriors is to even the odds more if assaulted by terminators. A shredder might be functionally more useful in 6th. However, dropping trueborn and keeping the 6 blasters scattered throughout the warrior squads gives 500pts to play with, which could go towards razorwings or suicide reavers to eliminate enemy artirelly / template weapons. Swap some trueborn out for Harlequins for the shadowseer's power to cover advance and maybe a few more for a moving wall screen of grotesques or beasts and the warriors are suddenly harder to reach and if the advancing beasts aren't taken out instead could lead to swathes of enemy firepower being tarpitted.
It's more of a proof of concept: I think 6th will be more accomodating to mass infantry. If taking 2000pts as providing 2 force organisation charts an army like Tyranids could field 300 gaunts with 2 cheap HQs. This is unlikely to be their best foot army but swap a squad or two away for elites and you'll still have huge blobs that will struggle to die in 6 turns of firepower. Of course, there'll always be flamers and assault cannons ready to mow down hordes.
I just don't know what I would do without mobility. Dark Eldar have so much speed it would be a shame not to use it.
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